Hi. I'm kinda on the crossroads here and I need your $0.02. I'm thinking about buying SS dragonfly for carry. After carefully loooking at pictures I realized that the one with serrated blade appeals to me much more than plain blade version. These serrations shout of Spyderco. On the other hand I hear all these scary stories about serrated dranflies being confiscated at airport etc. Please clarify for me: which law prohibits you from having in your luggage a folding knife with 2.5 inch serrated blade? And this one is for the person who lost his knife in Atlanta: What, you just gave it to them? Without any protest? Ok, they could (theoretically) prohibit you from carrying it on board, but they do NOT have any authority to confiscate lawfully possessed item. These guards they are not even state or federal employees. They are not police. You can easily sue their asses off. I travel quite often and nowhere in the airport I saw sign which says that you cannot have a folding knife with serrated blade on you. There is warning about guns, ammo, daggers, swords etc., but there is NOTHING about serrations. Please, any1 who can, clarify this problem for me.
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Serrated Dragonfly vs Airport Security
- Thread starter Carl Jacobsen
- Start date
- Joined
- Oct 19, 1998
- Messages
- 426
My recollection is, the official FAA regs say you can't carry on fixed blades, or folders with blades over 4 inches in length. But there was talk (long ago, I wasn't around here for most of 2000) of some secret, non-discussed rules (maybe these were FAA guidelines to the airlines, whatever) about limiting blade length to 3 inches, and no serrations. These latter restrictions started cropping up as part of the "increased security" after miscellaneous heavily-publicized terrorist attacks.
So, I don't think any law says you can't bring a 2.5" serrated folding knife. (BTW, these rules apply to what's on your person or in your carry-on luggage -- you can generally put larger things into your checked luggage.)
In the end, though, the airlines get to basically make up their own rules about what they'll let you carry onto their airplanes, and these rules get enforced by nearly-minimum-wage employees, some of whom apply their own fears, misconceptions, or desire to "catch a bad guy". There have been reports of some of them going apoplectic over serrations, black blades, or anything they perceive as "menacing looking". And to some of them, an SAK is menacing. I seem to recall one story of a security droid getting all wide-eyed when they came across a blade that was part serrated and part plain-edged (a Delica?), exclaiming "You can't have a double-edged knife!".
So, the situation varies greatly from state to state, airport to airport, and possibly even airline gate to airline gate. Officially, you should be able to carry a fully serrated Military onto the plane with no funny looks, but the best advice seems to be, bring a "non-scary", 3-or-less inch plain-edged knife with you, and if it's something you can't afford to lose, bring a self-addressed, stamped, padded envelope, so you can mail it back to yourself if you run into one of the really confused/scared droids.
Then again, I'd love to hear more up-to-date info from someone who's been watching the scene more closely than I have for the past year.
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Carl /\/\/\ AKTI #A000921 /\/\/\ San Diego, California
Think this through with me ... Let me know your mind
Wo-oah, what I want to know ... is are you kind?
-- Hunter/Garcia, "Uncle John's Band"
So, I don't think any law says you can't bring a 2.5" serrated folding knife. (BTW, these rules apply to what's on your person or in your carry-on luggage -- you can generally put larger things into your checked luggage.)
In the end, though, the airlines get to basically make up their own rules about what they'll let you carry onto their airplanes, and these rules get enforced by nearly-minimum-wage employees, some of whom apply their own fears, misconceptions, or desire to "catch a bad guy". There have been reports of some of them going apoplectic over serrations, black blades, or anything they perceive as "menacing looking". And to some of them, an SAK is menacing. I seem to recall one story of a security droid getting all wide-eyed when they came across a blade that was part serrated and part plain-edged (a Delica?), exclaiming "You can't have a double-edged knife!".
So, the situation varies greatly from state to state, airport to airport, and possibly even airline gate to airline gate. Officially, you should be able to carry a fully serrated Military onto the plane with no funny looks, but the best advice seems to be, bring a "non-scary", 3-or-less inch plain-edged knife with you, and if it's something you can't afford to lose, bring a self-addressed, stamped, padded envelope, so you can mail it back to yourself if you run into one of the really confused/scared droids.
Then again, I'd love to hear more up-to-date info from someone who's been watching the scene more closely than I have for the past year.
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Carl /\/\/\ AKTI #A000921 /\/\/\ San Diego, California
Think this through with me ... Let me know your mind
Wo-oah, what I want to know ... is are you kind?
-- Hunter/Garcia, "Uncle John's Band"
Guys, I'm here to tell you, no one cares what the FAA rules are, the Security Guards are employees of the airports and are subget to the laws of that jurisdiction. I travel all the time, have a Platinum Medallion card to prove it.
I've been stopped at least a half a dozen times, not a large percentage, but enough times to be a pain in the a*s. Each time a different "rule" was "quoted", bottom line is there is no real rule and each area calls it their own way. I once argued, until a LEO was called, and to quote him,"either comply or miss your plane". I now travel with a Spydercard and a Cold Steel Mini Pal. Both of which I just hand to them, and they have no idea of what they are.
One point, I've travelled with a dozen knives in my checked bags, but worried the whole time. Al
I've been stopped at least a half a dozen times, not a large percentage, but enough times to be a pain in the a*s. Each time a different "rule" was "quoted", bottom line is there is no real rule and each area calls it their own way. I once argued, until a LEO was called, and to quote him,"either comply or miss your plane". I now travel with a Spydercard and a Cold Steel Mini Pal. Both of which I just hand to them, and they have no idea of what they are.
One point, I've travelled with a dozen knives in my checked bags, but worried the whole time. Al
- Joined
- Aug 2, 1999
- Messages
- 1,910
Another argument for getting to the airport at least an hour before your flight, like the airlines suggest. If they won't let you take your knife through the security checkpoint, you still have time to check your carry on bag.
I have an 11:15 PM flight tonight. Most of my collection will be in one of my checked bags
since I'm moving -- and I'll be worrying until I get my bags back in Roanoke.
My BM 705 has been through SFO before without problems, so it'll be in my travel case (suspended vertically to minimize x-ray shadow
); also, a CRKT Titanium Mirage in my pocket and an Aluminum Cricket -- gotta' have at least one Spydie with me -- as a money clip.
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Dave
Let no one ever from henceforth say one word in any way countenancing war. It is dangerous even to speak of how here and there the individual may gain some hardship of soul by it. For war is hell, and those who institute it are criminals. Siegfried Loraine Sassoon
[This message has been edited by dsvirsky (edited 01-10-2001).]
I have an 11:15 PM flight tonight. Most of my collection will be in one of my checked bags
My BM 705 has been through SFO before without problems, so it'll be in my travel case (suspended vertically to minimize x-ray shadow
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Dave
Let no one ever from henceforth say one word in any way countenancing war. It is dangerous even to speak of how here and there the individual may gain some hardship of soul by it. For war is hell, and those who institute it are criminals. Siegfried Loraine Sassoon
[This message has been edited by dsvirsky (edited 01-10-2001).]
- Joined
- Nov 22, 1998
- Messages
- 982
I just passed through airport security a couple of days ago with my G-10 Harpy stowed in my carry-on bag (clipped to a piece of cardboard stock vertically arranged in the bag) and my SAK in my pocket. No second looks at the SAK, and X-Ray seemed not to notice the Harpy. In defference to the stews (er, flight attendants) I left the Harpy in my bag until getting off the plane.
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Life Member NRA & PMA, member AKTI, NKCA, ATA, and any other worthy cause I can find.
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Life Member NRA & PMA, member AKTI, NKCA, ATA, and any other worthy cause I can find.
Traveling through LAX last month, I was stopped at security, and asked if I had a pocketknife in my carry-on. I said "sure", and took out the (non-serrated) mini-AFCK. The security gal partially opened the blade and checked the length against her ID badge, showed it to the X-ray operator, then handed it back. No fuss, no muss.
massad ayoob recently did an excellent article in combat handguns magazine on what you can and cant carry onto a commercial flight....he went into not only knife regs but went into guns and as well as non lethal forms of protection such as sprays and kubotans, etc...bottom line on the cutlery is that faa regs state less than four inches and dont mention serrated vs plain blade...now each airline can make stricter rules if they want and the faa wont care or raise a fuss...some "security expert" had a seminar on airline secruity and told them that they should only let non serrated folders with blade lengths 3" or less and that are not menancing looking should be allowed and that serrated knives were a special hazard as they "could cut an aircraft's fuselage".....i know its bullsh#t but thats what he told them.....the airline officials believed him and made stricter policies than the faa guidlines....if you need a serrated knife get one of the serrated steak knives they give you in first class as they have so kindly provided me so many times!!!..massad ayoob suggests that you keep the blade length less than three inches and plain edged....he suggested the cold steel medium clip point voyager, the spyderco delica, and the gerber lst...we all know of many knives that can fit the stricter guidelines....now i have carried delicas with plain edges on dozens of flights and have never had a problem...i have also carried four inch folders in my carry on and have never had a problem (but now stow them in the checked luggage).....i now carry my small sebenza onto flights without problems......another word of caution....most of the security people are taught to use their identity badges as measuring devices instead of using a ruler to measure the blade length.....if the blade is longer than the identity card then its a no go...as pointed out in another post in this thread limits and regs can and will vary from airline to airline and city to city....the strictest security i have ever seen was on an el al flight to israel which involved multiple screenings of all passengers and multiple carry on checks both manual and xray and they let me carry on my person a sak as well as a delica....they didnt even flinch at the endura i had in my carry on as it was the same color as my delica...they just checked to make sure it was plain edged and smiled...i was lucky....feverdoc
- Joined
- Oct 28, 1998
- Messages
- 119
I stopped carrying serrated Spydercos on airlines around the time security first started to consider anything toothy as "menacing."
That menacing term is important to understand. Airport security is entirely perception based. Your age, gender, race, physical appearance, dress, behavior, and what you're carrying when you pass through the checkpoint all impact the amount of scrutiny you're going to get.
You can be perfectly legal within the letter of the law, but for one reason or another, still get hassled, based on the perception of a minimum wage, marginally trained employee.
Travel is stressful enough as it is, and I don't like to miss my flights. So I make sure the tools I carry with me are first off legal, and second, don't create, in most people's view, a negative perception.
Yes, plain-edge Delicas typically are not a problem when you fly domestic (on international flights I like an FRN Dragonfly, with other tools in checked baggage). However, I look forward to the upcoming release of the blue handle Delicas. Why? Because a blue knife doesn't look as menacing as a black knife. And if that avoids a negative perception just once, and eliminates/reduces the hassle factor, it's worth it.
Joel
That menacing term is important to understand. Airport security is entirely perception based. Your age, gender, race, physical appearance, dress, behavior, and what you're carrying when you pass through the checkpoint all impact the amount of scrutiny you're going to get.
You can be perfectly legal within the letter of the law, but for one reason or another, still get hassled, based on the perception of a minimum wage, marginally trained employee.
Travel is stressful enough as it is, and I don't like to miss my flights. So I make sure the tools I carry with me are first off legal, and second, don't create, in most people's view, a negative perception.
Yes, plain-edge Delicas typically are not a problem when you fly domestic (on international flights I like an FRN Dragonfly, with other tools in checked baggage). However, I look forward to the upcoming release of the blue handle Delicas. Why? Because a blue knife doesn't look as menacing as a black knife. And if that avoids a negative perception just once, and eliminates/reduces the hassle factor, it's worth it.
Joel
- Joined
- Oct 19, 1998
- Messages
- 426
Heh heh, I remember a quote I read a looong time ago on one of the forums (or maybe rec.knives) that was attributed to Massad Ayoob, if I recall correctly. Seems that he was heading for an airplane and happened to have a "tactical" flashlight on him, something on the order of a SureFire, and they questioned him on it and started to raise a fuss... Well, he said, with his voice starting to raise, "Yes, it IS a flashlight -- if this plane should CRASH, and I manage to SURVIVE, I will USE THIS FLASHLIGHT TO FIND MY WAY TO SAFETY!". Well, you can imagine the scene, the panic-stricken gate personnel were desperate to quiet him down and suddenly they just couldn't seem to get him through the checkpoint fast enough, not wanting to alarm the other passengers...
Don't know if it's true, and I would advise against trying to repeat it (seems you'd be just as likely to end up dragged off to a private office to await the arrival of the federal-agents-with-no-sense-of-humor), but I sure do like that image.
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Carl /\/\/\ AKTI #A000921 /\/\/\ San Diego, California
Think this through with me ... Let me know your mind
Wo-oah, what I want to know ... is are you kind?
-- Hunter/Garcia, "Uncle John's Band"
Don't know if it's true, and I would advise against trying to repeat it (seems you'd be just as likely to end up dragged off to a private office to await the arrival of the federal-agents-with-no-sense-of-humor), but I sure do like that image.
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Carl /\/\/\ AKTI #A000921 /\/\/\ San Diego, California
Think this through with me ... Let me know your mind
Wo-oah, what I want to know ... is are you kind?
-- Hunter/Garcia, "Uncle John's Band"
