Serration strength

KarlMaldensNose

KarlMaldensNose

Joined
Feb 3, 2009
Messages
1,342
Would it be fair to say that serrations on an AUS-8 blade will roll/bend/fold/fail before they would on stuff like VG-10, S30V or D2? Obviously the serration design will play a part, but for arguement's sake let's say the blade and serration geometry are identical. Thoughts?

I ask because I believe I need one serrated, or partially serrated, edge knife in my stable. (I generally don't like 'em, but can easily remember a handful of times when a SE would've been helpful.) I was gonna pick up the Ka-Bar Dozier Folding Hunter tomorrow anyway, and was thinking that maybe this should be my SE blade. BUT it's AUS-8, and while this can get really sticky sharp, it's not particularly strong. What's a guy to do? Get the serrations on something tougher, or say what the hell, it's only $25!?
 
I am under the impression it would all depend upon heat treat. Given the usual heat treatments, your ranking, i.e. AUS-8, VG-10, S30V, and D2, is roughly how I'd expect resistance to bending of serrations to occur.

In the end, I suspect it is a mute point; most of the deformation I've seen with serrations has been due to improper sharpening. I have cut "tin" cans, but that was with M2 and the serrations did bend a bit. "Normal" cutting has given little issue in the deformation area.
 
I’ve got a SE Spyderco Dragonfly in AUS-8 and I’m not gonna lie I’ve abused that poor little knife like no other blade in my collection and only one of the teeth on the very last serration on the blade has broken off, though only the very end, I have to look closely to see the damage. I cant tell you how impressed I am when I think about all the stuff I’ve put that knife through and it still looks and works perfect. So like they said above, the heat treat and quality of manufacture is paramount.
 
Hi Karl...

The material is important on a serration because each tool has to "stand alone". Unlike a plain edge where "point of impact" is supported by the adjacent edge.

If you really need a serration, I think that you should invest in a good one. Having a tool to do a job that only marginally does the job is making life more difficult. Would you life your life that way?

Although I'm biased, I would sugget looking into Spyderco's H1 or VG-10 serrations both for performance and toughness.

sal
 
Sal, you talked me into a half serrated Endura... green, VG-10, luv it already.

And I just now talked myself out of that and into a half serrated Military... black blade, S30V, I'm drooling!

So, to beat this dead horse of a thread a little more, I'm now concerned about S30V's reputation as an underperformer in the toughness category (it's strong, but not tough... see the steel FAQ) as it would pertain to the serration point's ability to "stand alone" at the "point of impact" without the support of an adjacent edge. I mean, S30V can be prone to chipping with a really fine, acute edge, and a serration is nothing if not acute in nature.

Look, I suppose this whole neurotic mess can be cleared up in my head if some Military [in S30V, (partially)serrated edge] owners stepped forward with their experiences with this stuff.

Note to the BladeForums vets out there: Would it be poor etiquette to repost my new question in a new thread in an attempt to get it seen? It seems kinda burried down here.
 
Interested in a partially serrated Military. Okay.

Well, before I gave my S30V version away to a poor knifeless sole, I used it to cut various metal reinforced hoses and cables without issue. Nothing exceptional, there.
 
I thought toughness (ability to not break) wasn't really the same at all as edge holding (hardness and maybe even more prone to breakage/snapping under stress) and that was why these composite blades often have a steel with a higher hardness, for the edge and the rest of the blade is a softer more flexible type steel. (not that that would make the serrated edge be less prone to not break off teeth, but I've never seen serrations on that type blade)
So in that light wouldn't a super steel that was serrated be more prone to lose it's teeth than a milder steel under high stress? Which means not just "normal" cutting but abusive and twisting/scraping type use.
 
I've had only good experiences with Cold Steel's serrations. They beat the bumpy serrations of other knives, though I also like Spyderco's serrations. Depends on what you're going to be cutting, though. If I were going to buy a premium steel, I'd get it in a plain edge. If I were going with serrations, I'd get them in a less expensive steel.

The CS Recon 1 has a very nice rack of serrations if you get it in the Bowie blade.
 
I have been really disappointed with Kershaw and Cold Steel's serrations, but have been blown away by Spyderco's. It's definitely a matter of steel and design.
 
jill jackson said:
I thought toughness (ability to not break) wasn't really the same at all as edge holding (hardness and maybe even more prone to breakage/snapping under stress) and that was why these composite blades often have a steel with a higher hardness, for the edge and the rest of the blade is a softer more flexible type steel. (not that that would make the serrated edge be less prone to not break off teeth, but I've never seen serrations on that type blade)
So in that light wouldn't a super steel that was serrated be more prone to lose it's teeth than a milder steel under high stress? Which means not just "normal" cutting but abusive and twisting/scraping type use.
Click to expand...

Well, as they say in stress/strain classes, draw a picture and apply force vectors. Modulus of elasticity graphs of the pertinent metals will be handy - if you can find them for the metals as heat treated. You don't need finite element anaysis to get a rough model of the situation.

In the end, it'll depend upon whether forces that cause the "tougher" steel to perminently deform can break the "harder" steel.
 
I have a Full SE Mili in S30V :D

I have beat the junk out of her and no chips or bends, I have broke a serration off a VG10 caly 3. Don't know when it happened, but one day I seen she was gone. Who knows?

I have also bent a H1 serration pretty bad, she did bend right back in place and I never had a problem with it after that.

My beater knife is a combo edge ZDP Endura. She has taken the beating with zero problems!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top