Sew or Rivet keeper straps

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superc

Joined
Sep 30, 2003
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I know there are supposedly advantages to each method but I am curious. Is there any advantage to riveting a keeper strap besides ease and speed of assembly vs sewing it into place?
 
superc said:
I know there are supposedly advantages to each method but I am curious. Is there any advantage to riveting a keeper strap besides ease and speed of assembly vs sewing it into place?
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yes.
it will swivel the strap out of the way so it can't be cut..
 
Hmm, I have seen some makers sheaths with 2 rivets, presumably there is no swiveling there. I have also seen some with stitching around a rivet. On the other hand, with older sheaths I have seen pulled through rivets, but I have never seen a sewed on strap come off the sheath.
 
superc said:
Hmm, I have seen some makers sheaths with 2 rivets, presumably there is no swiveling there. I have also seen some with stitching around a rivet. On the other hand, with older sheaths I have seen pulled through rivets, but I have never seen a sewed on strap come off the sheath.
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o.k..

the advantage of 1 rivet, in contrary to stitching, riveting AND stitching, and double riveting, could be that the retention strap can swing out of the proximety of the sheath opening, where it might accidently get cut during unconcentrated resheating..
That's why I use a single rivet for my straps instead of 2 or a stitched solution.. I learned that trick from good 'ol leatherman.. :D:thumbup:
 
superc said:
Hmm, I have seen some makers sheaths with 2 rivets, presumably there is no swiveling there. I have also seen some with stitching around a rivet. On the other hand, with older sheaths I have seen pulled through rivets, but I have never seen a sewed on strap come off the sheath.
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I have. But I've seen them all fail at one time or the other. The single rivet that me and Martin use is for the reason that he stated, it lets the strap swivel out of the way of the blade.

Stitching around a rivet is a little redundant. So is two rivets. But redundancy can be a good thing in some situations.

In my years I have sewn them on, riveted them on, snapped them on, and made a few integral straps. I still do when requested, but if its not specifically asked for I will use the swivell strap if its an over the guard strap.

Around the handle straps are another animal entirely, I dont even attach them to the sheath, they run through a slot and pull out of the way of the blade and can be removed/replaced easily.

Hope this helps a little.
 
Yes it does. Thanks. About to try my second leather sheath. Have cut the keeper strap, now debating which attachment method would be best (Dumpster Mutt as mentioned elsewhere). Still measuring though so plenty of time to decide. No question a rivet is fastest. I am just dubious about the quality of the little rivets they sell in places like Marshalls. Those things look so flimsy and I want the strap to last at least a few years.
 
Not sure what Marshalls is, but the rivets at Tandy are plenty tough. If your worried about strength get a solid copper rivet. They come in two pieces, the rivet and the burr. You have to peen the rivet in order for it to mushroom over the burr. This is serious overkill, but the strongest out there.

The standard riveted keeper straps on some of my older personal sheaths are still going strong ten years later. Theres not really all that much force applied to the strap under normal use, but i have had my knife handle get caught on a branch and pull me over. The strap is still fine.
 
Okay Rivet it is.

[Marshalls is a local arts & craft store, suposedly a national chain. 2 feet of Tandy Leather display (no big pieces of leather) and several 1000 feet of kids games, paint by numbers, and do it yourself plaster mold kits, some clay starter kits, flower pots, plastic flower, and 20 feet of oil paint. Whole back of the store seems to be a second store selling gilt paint picture frames. Lots of 'wanna be an interior decorator' types and people who believe 'Martha S. knows best' shop there. The 'for leather rivets' sold here are made in China and look like they are made of plated tin or anodized aluminum.]

I think I will use a peened back galvinized roofing nail and a washer as my rivet.
 
Marshalls sounds like our Hobby Lobby or Michaels, not much for the leather hobbyist.

The nail sounds interesting, please let us know how it turns out. :) Normally, iron and steel pieces on the outside of a sheath dont weather well, but if cared for it shouldn't be an issue.

I've thought of making rivets out of copper and brass rod. I did it back in college in metals class, not too difficult but the metal will work harden quickly.
 
Tonight I riveted the retaining strap to the back strap after placing the snap. I really was going to use the roofing nail trick (Dad showed me that trick 40 years or so ago, and it worked well for his sheath), but at the last minute I found a store with brass rivets (the two piece kind), and went with those. I have folded and glued the back strap to the back of the sheath and will stitch it in place when the glue dries. It has been slow going as I am trying to keep my stitches even this time but even though I mark and pre-drill the holes, things still tend to wander around a little.
 
Are you drilling each layer separately?

If so try gluing the sheath together first, sand the edges square, mark the stitching line, then drill the holes.

If you did that please disreguard. :p
 
Yes. Part of the problem is the hand held Dewalt drill sometimes wanders (yes, I know, clamp it into the drill press, but that's too much like work) a little around the mark, likewise using the magic marker to make a dot each 1/4" is not as easy as it sounds, even when the ruler is right there. Did I mention sewing anything is not my best skill and drawing a straight line is something I never learned to do? It will be a pouch type sheath around a used milk bottle core (pictured elsewhere) holding the Dumpster Mutt. Thin Alligator hide glued, then stitched, to a 5oz cowhide split. Probably as ugly as they come, but very individualistic.
 
Yup, I tried the hand held drill route a few times, then I went and got one of those Dremel Drill Press attachments for my little Dremel. I used that for a few years, it worked very well. When I finally got my larger drill press I realized a whole new level. :)

You dont have to clamp the sheath to the press, just hold it steady.

The tools for setting the stitch line, and spacing the stitches isnt too awfully expensive and they make it so much easier and faster.

Adjustable Groover, for marking the stitching line
I use a three prong chislel to mark my stitching holes, theres several types to choose from, again quick and easy. :) I dont use a marking wheel because, one, the marks are too light for these awful eyes, and two, a good chance of running out of the stitching groove line.

My words to live by are "Form Follows Function" It doesnt have to look pretty to work good.
 
Yeah, I bought one of those Tandy marking wheels a few years ago and veddy quickly learned that while they are great on finished hides, in rough split leather, or gosh forbid, alligator hide, the marks they leave are almost invisible. Now if I throw my 250+ pounds on it, then it leaves a mark, but then the little shaft thing the wheel revolves on soon snaps also. That brought me to a steel ruler and a marking pen. I hear you on the 3 prong chisel and now you have me wondering if I should sacrifice a 4 tine fork by making their points more needle-like and straightening the handle. Position, then tap with a mallet, reposition, ibid, ibid, then drill.. The spacing would be just about right..

What I wanted to try for my groove was wet the leather, then vise it with a chopstick laying over the intended stitch line, wait till the leather drives, open the vise, remove the chopstick, and voila, instant groove. Problem I hit while experimenting was this works well in cowhide, but not well at all on gator hide glued to cowhide. :(

Second problem was how to groove the blade curves? Finally decided to dispense with grooves.

You read my mind about devising a clamp for the big drill press. Thought about C clamps (vs. the machinest vises), but saw potential marring problems there. I agree that if I pulley the drill speed down to 75 RPM or so, the hand holding of the leather should work just fine. I actually believe I have one of those Dremel press thingies (NIB, a gift, shelved somewhere). The Dremel itself was too dainty for most of the jobs around here (am on my 4th one) and for the past decade I believe sharpening chain saw blades is about all I've trusted a Dremel for. Got lots of Dremel parts though, so maybe I will dig the D stuff out of whatever box I threw it in.. :)
 
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