Sexbolt or Pivot Barrel for Buck 110/112? And 119?

[Chevota]

I bought a new 112 (0112CFS2) that uses screws, not rivets, so I know they exist. Wondering if anyone has drilled out their rivet(s) and replaced it/all with screws?
If so, where did you buy them and what diameter is needed? I've been to usaknifemaker.com but don't know if there are other or better places. I ask diameter because I worry that Buck may have changed size of my 0112CFS2 as the sexbolts available may not be the same as the rivets. I'd hate to drill out a good rivet knife and find that out the hard way. My first stop was Buck but it says on their website they don't sell parts
Another reason is I want to take them apart is for mods, which would include lightening the spring and modding the aft spacer so it doesn't flatten the tip of the blade. Or maybe put a stop near the pivot to prevent said contact. You'd think after all these decades they would've fixed that... I'm all ears if others have modded them for those reasons, or other cool mods I'm unaware of.

While I'm here, same question for a 119 if I remove the pin. I want to change the handle on a 119 but figured I'd probably never get the Alum end to look oem after. While oem looks is what I'd like, a threaded fastener that looks nice is a reasonable option. So I was curious how others are doing it... I saw a pix online where a guy welded threaded rod to the tang and screwed a custom end on, but I'd rather not. I'd prefer whatever fastener going thru the oem hole in the tang using the oem butt piece. Any thoughts on it are welcome.
Also, does the oem pin come out with a punch/press or is more of a rivet and needs to be drilled out? Since there is zero play and it holds up over time I assume the latter, but just a guess. Or maybe epoxy is involved, I just don't know...
If there is epoxy in there, is all down the tang bonding the phenolic handle to it? Or is the phenolic poured/cured/bonded to the tang? I can break that handle but if I take apart a wood one I'd rather not damage it, so even if the phenolic doesn't have epoxy, I worry wood might. So any info on that would be appreciated.
I bought a new 119 to sacrifice for this, so no real loss if it's a complete fail. If ti works it will be a practice run for the next knife.

Thanks!

 

[jbmonkey]

on 112....do a search for T tiguy7 posts. hes done it many times on various 560s. maybe some others. hes posted sizes and methods before. I assume what works on a 110 sized will work on a 112, but I could be mistaken.

on the 119 etexas has done them. there was a post fairly recently on this topic....

I tagged them both to see if theyll cut to the chase and save ya some search time on the topic.

 

[Chevota]

Thank you jbmonkey, you are very kind! I searched but I guess my kung fu is weak
I have a cherry 560, but unfortunately it's painted black despite my ordering the brushed/bare finish. That is, imo, like painting a gold watch. So that's another that may be worth taking apart and making it look right.

 

[jbmonkey]

Thank you jbmonkey, you are very kind! I searched but I guess my kung fu is weak
I have a cherry 560, but unfortunately it's painted black despite my ordering the brushed/bare finish. That is, imo, like painting a gold watch. So that's another that may be worth taking apart and making it look right.

yes Sir. I'm using the mobile app of this site right now and it doesn't do links to copy and paste. least I haven't figure out how to do that, if it does yet. later ill see if I can find the threads for ya and post links.

there was a black version 560, I dont know rare they are, I dont see as many for sale as the others. I wouldn't mess with that one myself, but it's your knife. I dont know what they coated it with, but tiguy7 would know. hes on top of the various coatings they used at Buck.

 

[tiguy7]

That black “Ninja” 560 had a painted blade and handle as I recall. The life expectancy of the coatings was about 1 week. If I had one, I would disassemble it and strip the paint from all parts. I would put it back together with 4 screw sets consisting of 4 internally threaded (#2X56TPI) 1/8” diameter barrels and 8 #2X56TPI pan head screws. The bare Titanium parts are difficult to anodize because they were cast in a linear (belt fed) furnace with a Nitrogen atmosphere inside. The Ti parts have a skin on them which do not lend themselves to finishing. Also the composition of alloy is unknown (to me).
The top knife in the bottom picture shows a 560 assembled with 4 screw sets. The other 2 were anodized by my son in law.View attachment 1562395View attachment 1562396View attachment 1562398

 

[ZRXRICH]

Where can you buy 5/40 1/8 barrels, can only find 2/56 1/8 barrels

 

[tiguy7]

Where can you buy 5/40 1/8 barrels, can only find 2/56 1/8 barrels

Sorry, I must have posted this late at night. I corrected the text in post #5. #5 screws are 1/8” in diameter so they can’t go inside a 1/8” diameter barrel. When I put Buck 560 knives together with #5X40TPI screws instead of #2X56TPI screw sets, I install #5X40TPI Helicoils in the right hand scales.
The top knife has 4 #5 cap screws and 4 HeliCoils. The bottom knife has 1 #5 Helicoil and 1 #5 cap screw through the pivot.
View attachment 1562807

 

[st8yd]

The pin in the 119 butt is peened in, easiest is to drill it thru with smaller diameter then knock it out. It is easy to peen a new pin back. The phenolic is not molded to the handle and will knock off easily once the pommel is off.

 

[Chevota]

tiguy7 & st8yd: Thank you both for the info and taking the time to share!! I can now take them apart with far less fear of ruining them
As for the 560, I guess I'll strip the paint off and see how it looks, then go from there. Never worked with Ti before but assume if I don't like the finish I could simply hit it with sandpaper for a brushed finish on the outer flat surface. I could've swore when I ordered it that the five large holes on the scales were through, not blind, but probably an illusion of the photo in the catalog. It does make me wonder how it would look to bore those out... My 560 is dated '92. Unfortunately I had a buying spree in the mid '90's and ended up with a dozen knives dated '92-'93 so I have no clue if they are 425M or 420HC. Also no clue which I prefer since they are all unused, so I guess it doesn't matter but I still want to know. I have noticed the blade color is different on some, as is the older 440, so I wonder if that's just a fluke or a tell?

A little about me/my knives, if anyone cares:
I have 22 fixed and 32 folding buck knives. No chinese blades that I know of, but five Bantam models, one of each size, which apparently have US blades and some or all the rest is china?
Five different 119's plus two matching 619's in black (std 119 blade with all rubber handle).
Five 110's, all different. Six 112's, all diff. I much prefer the size of the 112 but the 110 is an icon and I was compelled to buy them.
Only one 124 which is cocobolo from '93, and possibly my fav knife period. I plan on another, or two, so I have one to actually use/abuse. Hoping they make an S30 version. Oh, and a 5160 version which I would also be forced to buy.
Most of my Bucks have never been used other than taking out of the box to admire, maybe get a little a drool on. Of course I have no actual need for that many, just gotta have 'em. If I do use one, or mod it, I usually buy a second one and keep the nicer of the two new in box. Maybe a shrink could explain why I do that but I imagine many of us share the same strange need...
I also love taking things apart and modding/improving them, sometimes making them worse in my effort , but mostly I'm succesfull and I learn and enjoy it. The info shared here helps me feel a lot more comfortable to open these up and tinker on things that bug me.

Thank you to everyone for contributing, and to the founder(s) who created this forum to share this wealth of knowledge. Know that it is helpful and appreciated!

 

[st8yd]

I don't think the factory did any 560's with the holes drilled all the way through.
I have one with holes all the way through that I'm in the middle of the project, but it was used and altered by previous owner, I found it on a boat that I bought.

 

[IDhorace]

Chevota said "Of course I have no actual need for that many, just gotta have 'em."

That means you are among friends here ;-) ALL of us fit that description, to varying degrees I'd imagine.
I have no need for the books, knives, cameras, guns, fountain pens, War for Southern Independence artifacts... yeah, collector gene. My Mom did Beanie Babies, so I figure I'm "evolving".

And welcome to the forums, from another new guy.

 

[tiguy7]

tiguy7 & st8yd: Thank you both for the info and taking the time to share!! I can now take them apart with far less fear of ruining them
As for the 560, I guess I'll strip the paint off and see how it looks, then go from there. Never worked with Ti before but assume if I don't like the finish I could simply hit it with sandpaper for a brushed finish on the outer flat surface. I could've swore when I ordered it that the five large holes on the scales were through, not blind, but probably an illusion of the photo in the catalog. It does make me wonder how it would look to bore those out... My 560 is dated '92. Unfortunately I had a buying spree in the mid '90's and ended up with a dozen knives dated '92-'93 so I have no clue if they are 425M or 420HC. Also no clue which I prefer since they are all unused, so I guess it doesn't matter but I still want to know. I have noticed the blade color is different on some, as is the older 440, so I wonder if that's just a fluke or a tell?

A little about me/my knives, if anyone cares:
I have 22 fixed and 32 folding buck knives. No chinese blades that I know of, but five Bantam models, one of each size, which apparently have US blades and some or all the rest is china?
Five different 119's plus two matching 619's in black (std 119 blade with all rubber handle).
Five 110's, all different. Six 112's, all diff. I much prefer the size of the 112 but the 110 is an icon and I was compelled to buy them.
Only one 124 which is cocobolo from '93, and possibly my fav knife period. I plan on another, or two, so I have one to actually use/abuse. Hoping they make an S30 version. Oh, and a 5160 version which I would also be forced to buy.
Most of my Bucks have never been used other than taking out of the box to admire, maybe get a little a drool on. Of course I have no actual need for that many, just gotta have 'em. If I do use one, or mod it, I usually buy a second one and keep the nicer of the two new in box. Maybe a shrink could explain why I do that but I imagine many of us share the same strange need...
I also love taking things apart and modding/improving them, sometimes making them worse in my effort , but mostly I'm succesfull and I learn and enjoy it. The info shared here helps me feel a lot more comfortable to open these up and tinker on things that bug me.

Thank you to everyone for contributing, and to the founder(s) who created this forum to share this wealth of knowledge. Know that it is helpful and appreciated!

View attachment 1564857View attachment 1564858Once you get a screw in the pivot, you can start moving blades around. You can buy custom blades, knock blades out of other knives, or use Selector blades.

 

[Chevota]

I managed to do the pivot on a cheaper $25 112 (0112BKS1), then I did a nicer G10/S30V (0112BKS6). Worked out perfectly. It's a pita to get the pin out without damage since I don't have any cool tools, so I'm using a cordless drill and a Dremel. This is why I only did the pivot btw.
I used the 1/8" pivot barrel with 2-56 screws from usaknifemaker.com but the screw head is so small is just doesn't look quite right. I was hoping for something with a flat top and 1/4" dia head to nicely fit in the washer recess, like this: https://usaknifemaker.com/catalog/product/view/id/15297
I'd prefer it with an 1/8" barrel but I guess a bushing swap is fine.
I was also successful at making the knives open with a flick of the wrist, which involved some grinding on the blades radius where the spine rubs and grinding the spring to reduce tension, and it works perfectly!

tiguy7; you mentioned custom blades. Where would I get those? Google gave me nuttin... I'm happy with the oem 420 & S30V blades but am open to others like CPM 20V which I've had my eye on. I would prefer them without a nail nick or thumb stud because I have no use for it and think they're annoying and in the way. I see you have just that a couple pix up... I may like to try a drop point like you have, and would be especially interested if someone makes a flat bevel for both the 112 and 119. I think a flat bevel 119 would be awesome, but if I had my way it would have a less dramatic clip type point, like the Nighthawk 650; https://tinyurl.com/ss5rjcpk which I also have two of and is a toss up with the 119 as my fave fixed.
So is there some secret Buck menu like In-N-Out has to get something different or what?
And thanks for the help!!!

 

[st8yd]

No getting spare blades from Buck.
Mostly just getting them from donor knives.
Look on ebay I have seen some custom (not made by Buck) blades for the 110, not sure about the 112 and havn't seen supersteels.
The Buck 482 has a blade shape similar to the 650 that will fit the 112.
The best drop point for the 112 will come from a 442 Buck lite.

 

[Leftee]

That black “Ninja” 560 had a painted blade and handle as I recall. The life expectancy of the coatings was about 1 week. If I had one, I would disassemble it and strip the paint from all parts. I would put it back together with 4 screw sets consisting of 4 internally threaded (#2X56TPI) 1/8” diameter barrels and 8 #2X56TPI pan head screws. The bare Titanium parts are difficult to anodize because they were cast in a linear (belt fed) furnace with a Nitrogen atmosphere inside. The Ti parts have a skin on them which do not lend themselves to finishing. Also the composition of alloy is unknown (to me).
The top knife in the bottom picture shows a 560 assembled with 4 screw sets. The other 2 were anodized by my son in law.View attachment 1562395View attachment 1562396View attachment 1562398

So my brother worked at the company that made the TI handles for the 560 in the nineties-AccuShape in Albany Oregon. The company burnt to the ground and is gone-but he gave me a 560 that survived the fire and has the most amazing patina that could only be attained by an uncontrollable fire of 50,000 lbs of powder titanium. But the blade is loose at lockup and I would love to replace all the revets with screws to tighten it up and make it adjustable. Any thoughts on who I could trust to do this? I’m limited on tools at the moment-taking care of my elderly father in Oregon and really missing home in CDA Idaho. Thanks

 

[tiguy7]

So my brother worked at the company that made the TI handles for the 560 in the nineties-AccuShape in Albany Oregon. The company burnt to the ground and is gone-but he gave me a 560 that survived the fire and has the most amazing patina that could only be attained by an uncontrollable fire of 50,000 lbs of powder titanium. But the blade is loose at lockup and I would love to replace all the revets with screws to tighten it up and make it adjustable. Any thoughts on who I could trust to do this? I’m limited on tools at the moment-taking care of my elderly father in Oregon and really missing home in CDA Idaho. Thanks

Interesting story. I wonder if the hardness of the blade was affected by the heat of the fire. I would check with Buck about replacing the blade or tightening the pivot. You wouldn't necessarily have to replace all 4 rivets with screw sets. The 1/8" diameter internally threaded barrels and #2X56TPI pan head screws are available from most knife parts suppliers. The barrels and screws sometimes have to be cut to length. The tough part is cutting the head off of a stainless rivet (on one end) so you can drive the pin out. To do this, I use a Firex spotting drill that is coated with multiple layers of hard Physical Vapor Deposited Ceramics. Although the Firex drill can cut stainless steel, it sometimes catches the pin and makes it spin. 1st photo top: Firex drill bit next to a #5 counterbore. 2nd photo: assorted #2 screws and barrels. 3rd photo: 2 560's; one with 4 screw sets, the other with one screw set. The 4 screw set knife was taken apart to remove material from the inside of the scales. The original thickness was 7/16". The new thickness is 3/8". You also have to take knives apart that need paint stripping.
I should add that the pivot cannot be adjusted with either a screw set or a pivot rivet. The scales are drawn together by the screw set and clamp the pivot bushing. The width of the bushing relative to the thickness of the blade determines the side to side play.
View attachment 1652477View attachment 1652478View attachment 1652501

 

[Leftee]

Thank you for the quick response. I thought about the blade hardness possibility but almost don't care because of the history and the way it looks. I have plenty of others to actually use. I'll have it checked just to satisfy my curiosity though. So do you think the bushings are worn, or the blade (probably not), or the scales, or possible all three? I have no problem dealing with just the pivot itself. Something like remove the rivet, replace the washers and custom fit the screw bushing length to get the correct pivot adjustment? Is that correct? I guess the other issue I have with the knife is the spring is really weak also. Sounds like a lot of effort for a burnt knife but it looks really cool. Thanks again and if you email me at kellybgriffin1958@gmail.com, I'll send you some pictures. I'm a rookie (this is my first post-do look at the site every day though) and not a paid member yet so don't think (or don't know how to) post pictures. Thank you...