Shabaria question/problem?

pfain

pfain

Joined
Mar 2, 2000
Messages
26
Well, I was able to snag a discount Shabaria from SMKW (eknifeworks.com) for $45, and after dancing in the street for a couple of days, it showed up tonite. After playing with the blade (keep away you darn pinkie finger! it's sharp!!), I noticed something that kind of gave my heart a little pitter-patter.

When you open the blade to the lock-engaged position, the liner-lock engages on a spot on the canted ramp (it's not straight, but angled) with an authoritative thunk! Well, I noticed that if I pushed on the back of the blade a little bit, there was some movement. After a couple of minutes of testing, I found that the culprit was the liner lock. The goshdarn thing was moving!!! And it was moving towards the disengage side of the handle!! After a few more minutes of experimentation (very carefully), I found that I couldn't push on the back of the blade hard enough to disengage it, but truth to tell, I really wasn't using all of my strength, mostly due to my fear of losing a body part.

I plan on calling the Spydie 1-800 number tomorrow and talking to the dudes down there about it, but I also wanted to see if anyone here had experienced this. I've had other liner locks, both Spydie's and other companies, and never experienced this before. Any help/comments would be appreciated. I'm really hoping that I got a freak model.

Oh yeah, it's staying in the box till I get this straightened out.

AB
 
pfain, which version of the Shabaria did you receive? The newer version is supposed to have an eccentric pivot (that is not user adjustable) which may have something to do with your situation. I think the newer version could be identified by an open back (?) vs. a closed back on the older version.

I'm not sure if I correctly understand your description of the "problem" but keep us updated on what happens.

P.S. Do you know if SMKW resells returned merchandise at a discount? I don't think so but you might want to ask around.
 
I'll see if I can explain things better. This is the newer model of the Shabaria (exemplified by the open back, not sure if I like this or not, as the handle does have some flex). Here's another go at trying to explain the problem...

Ok...when the blade opens, it is locked via the liner lock. There is very little side to side play, in that the blade does not move in regards to the handle slabs. Now, if you push on the spine of the blade, it will rock forward. It is rocking forward because the liner lock is sliding along the blade end towards the disengage position. I really have a hard time trying to describe a picture in words :) .

AB
 
Just to clarify, when you push on the spine, the liner is slipping along the tang, but not fully disengaging?

Depending on how much slip is involved, sometimes I'll tolerate this in a knife and sometimes I won't.
 
I got exactly the same knife from the same place with the same problem. This is my second Spyderco with this problem, the first one was the Starmate. My Military is rock solid, however.
 
pfain:

That's scary. I just re-checked the Shabaria I got from SMKW (same discount deal), and after some careful experimentation, could NOT get it to disengage in the way you described.

Good luck with yours!
 
Thinkofthechildren-
Yeah, that's right. Thanks for giving me the correct term. The lock is slipping along the blade tang towards the disengage position. It's not getting there, but the simple fact that it is moving is very disconcerting. This is the only liner lock knife I have that this occurs in, all the others are rock solid. And I'm really afraid to test it with more force because of my irrational fear of losing an appendage.

Other than this, I would really like the knife because it cuts like a dream. As it is I'm afraid to have it as an EDC simply because of this unknown quantity.

AB
 
I have a similar problem with a knife of another brand.

Don't know what causes it.

Actually, I'm not entirely sure why all liner locks don't do this. More force, in my understanding, should cause the liner to slide - I don't think I understand why in reality, good ones stick. Maybe someone could explain it to me.

Needless to say, its a scary thing. I could see my knife slide to the point of opening - forget that. I would say, send your shabaria to Spyderco, see if they can fix it.

-- Rob

-- Rob
 
I called up the 1-800 Spydie this morning and talked to someone in customer service about my Shabaria questions. He basically said that this is normal and not to worry about it unless I started using the Shab with martial bladescraft (which I don't plan on doing), because that's the only way he saw that pressure could be applied to the spine (ex. blocks and such) enough to exaggerate the situation. He asked me if I had any other liner lock knives, which I do (a Cricket and a couple of Kershaws), but they don't have the liner play, and have rock solid lockups.

He said that if I wanted I could send it in to Spyderco and they would look at it, but he didn't think there was anything that they could do about it. To be frank, there's no way I'm going to use this as an EDC, because I feel that this issue is still hanging over it. And if I don't have confidence in a knife, I don't carry it.

I hate to sound petulant or have anyone get the wrong impression, but this is the only Spyderco knife that I have owned that I have felt the slightest bit of dissatisfaction or non-confidence in (well, aside from that POS BRK Native, which I don't really blade on Spyderco). Unless I hear that someone has had the same problem I had and had it fixed by sending it in, I'm gonna wipe it down with a Tuff, box it up, and put it away.

That's really a shame, too, because I really love the blade and really get a kick out of the open back handle (it's the engineer in me, I love new stuff and non-traditional approaches). Anywho, thanks much for the feedback, and I hope that it keeps on coming in.

AB
 
AB
Send your knife in to Spyderco and have them look at it. They really do have EXCELLENT customer service, plus they work fast...in some cases less than a week. As far as not using it because of the limited number... I say use it. You will get much more pleasure from your knife by using/ carrying it, than you will from putting in your sock drawer. This is my opinion for pretty much any mass production knife unless it is a special ed. like some of the Benchmade variants, etc. The Shabaria is a great knife and one heck of a slicer, you'll appreciate her much more once you cut some things :)
Have fun with your new knife, you got a great deal on a great Spydie,
Matt
 
pfain, I think I now have a better understanding of what you are trying to describe. I don't think it should be "normal" for the liner lock to slide (towards the disengage side)when you push down on the spine of the blade--rather, it should dig into the back of the blade and hold tight. Even a little slippage that doesn't cause the lock to release entirely is not acceptable in my book.

Is it possible that oil spread into this area causing the metal to slide? If so, you might want to clean this area with a solvent.

Does the liner lock edge that contacts the blade look rounded? It should be a relatively sharp edge. I would return the knife if it is rounded.

I also feel that a mis-adjusted eccentric pivot could result in the problem you're having with slippage. But I understand that this should be done by the factory (I read somewhere that it is not user adjustable).

Finally, I think you should fix or replace the Shabaria because it is too good a knife to be relegated to strictly knife drawer duty. Keep us apprised of your situation. :)
 
I have had the same "problem" with my Starmate for 2 years. If you push on the back of the spine, the liner lock moves in about %20. It has done this since it was fixed by Spyderco for having a loose lock. The amount it moves has never changed. The liner locks up in the middle, it's never changed since it was fixed. The only maintenance I have done since it was repaired was to lock-tight the pivot screw, because it would come loose and the blade would then rub the handle slabs. I would suggest that you use the knife and don't worry about it. If you are worried, send it back to SMKW and they will send probably you a new one.
 
Originally posted by brownshoe,
If you are worried, send it back to SMKW and they will send probably you a new one.
Click to expand...

IMO SMKW, or any knife dealer for that matter, wouldn't send you a new Spydie. Why? Because of the Spyderco Warranty on their products and their promise to replace any defective Spydie with a new one.

I had a LNIB Civilian SE that I bought at a gun show and the blade steel was chipping right on the pivot area. I sent it in to Warranty and Repair not thinking that it was that big of a deal, to get it checked out. I was VERY surprised with what I got back a week later. Apparently the problem was more severe than what I thought, and Spyderco sent me a NIB Civilian SE to replace the old one. :D ;) :D
 
I know from experience that Spyderco does not replace every defective product with a new one. If possible they first fix the product. Only if it can't be fixed and it's a manufacturing defect do they give you a new knife. I don't know about SMKW policy, but most mail order houses give you the option to return a knife if it's defective or even, in some cases, you don't like it. Usually there is a time limit of 3 to 30 days. AG Russell goes one step further, they'll take back your knife at any time, even if it's been abused, as long as you believe it wasn't to your satisfaction. If I bought a Spyderco from AG and it was defective, I'd send it back to him. He'd send me a new one a lot quicker than Spyderco would fix the original knife. Also, Spyderco doesn't always agree with a customer as to what's a manufacturing defect, so you can be left arguing with customer service. If you're like me, you won't win, but at least I didn't have to pay for it to be fixed, but now they charge for repairs.

For many items, no matter what the manufacturer's warranty states, you can often get better service from your retailer when it comes to a defective product.
 
Originally posted by brownshoe,
I know from experience that Spyderco does not replace every defective product with a new one. If possible they first fix the product. Only if it can't be fixed and it's a manufacturing defect do they give you a new knife.
Click to expand...

This is from the 2002 Spyderco catalog;

"Spyderco warrants that all of our products are free from defects in material and workmanship. Spyderco's warranty does not cover damage caused by abuse, misuse, improper handling, alteration, accident, neglect, disassembly, or improper sharpening. If a knife fails to function as it was desinged we will examine its' condition upon its' return to us, to identify why it failed and respond in an appropriate manner. If we determine that there is a defect in the manufacture or materials we will gladly repair, or replace that product with the same model or one of equal value. If the problem is determined to not be caused by defects in manufacture or materials, we will inform you of the cost for repair. Upon agreement and payment we will perform the repair. If we are unable to improve the condition of the knife, we will return it to you with the recommendation that it be retired from use."

I don't know the circumstances of your situation with Spyderco Customer Service, but it seems odd that they would turn you away if you have a defective knife. I've dealt with their CS a couple of times, and have never been disappointed with their service. IMO, it's the BEST out there.

Also, Spyderco doesn't always agree with a customer as to what's a manufacturing defect.....
Click to expand...

Who would know the knife better than the manufacturer????? :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
 
In my opinion, the best policy is AG's. If you're not satisfied, return it, irrespective of problem or date. However, you pay a little extra for this assurance. Also, AG, pays more attention to the product he ships than, lets say, maybe SMKW.

Don't think that Spyderco agrees with all its customer's complaints. Sure they know their knives, but they're in the business to make some money too. For example, the integral plastic clips on some of their knives break off. This is a known design flaw. Same thing happens on the old Cold Steel Voyagers that use the same design. Does Spyderco replace the knife when this happens? No, they repair it by affixing a metal screw clip on the knife. Is this bad, no. But it's probably not exactly what the customer wanted, but the customer still has a working blade. Do they charge for this service? I don't know, but would hope not. Cold Steel used to replace the knife when this happened. But they also have dropped their old lifetime warranty down to 1 year for folders and 5 for fixed blades. The current Voyagers have a screw clip.
 
Originally posted by brownshoe,
For example, the integral plastic clips on some of their knives break off. This is a known design flaw.
Click to expand...

Spyderco doesn't use integral clips anymore on any of their products. Some of the older models, like the Endura, used that type of clip, but they have been replaced with ambidextrous steel clips for right or left hand carry.
 
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