Shapton glass 16000 grit question

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flashylightsmeow

Joined
Feb 19, 2016
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Hi everyone. Complete newbie here.
I received an aogami blue #2 chefs knife as a present. I purchased a set from shapton containing 500, 2000, and 16,000 grits, thing is The seller visited the factory and stated the 16000 is slightly different in that they've fiddled with the particle size so that it leaves extremely fine notches on the blade. Does anyone know anything about this!?

Thanks

Jamal
 
Notches? What are notches?

Who is the seller? Does he live in Japan?

The 16k is a very fine polishing stone of closely graded ceramic abrasive, it produces a very fine scratch pattern and polish but no notches from what I have seen.
 
flashylightsmeow said:
Hi everyone. Complete newbie here.
I received an aogami blue #2 chefs knife as a present. I purchased a set from shapton containing 500, 2000, and 16,000 grits, thing is The seller visited the factory and stated the 16000 is slightly different in that they've fiddled with the particle size so that it leaves extremely fine notches on the blade. Does anyone know anything about this!?

Thanks

Jamal
Click to expand...
Hi,
Notches, scratches, cuts, bites, grooves, dimples , finish ... same thing :D
 
Awesome! Thanks guys. The seller is Niwaki, the owner Jake is a top guy, visits Japan and the suppliers. He was saying this 16,000 creates micro scratch on the surface, and hence he charges less for the 16,000 than the 10,000. I just wanted to make sure it will be ok to use on carbon kitchen knives?
 
There is another vendor who makes mention of the fact that the 16k is offered at a discount to the 10k but he doesn't mention a reason. Maybe the is some different formulation? Shapton does formulate some stones for stainless and others for carbon, so perhaps that is one of those cases?

You might also want to read this writeup about the 16k when honing straight razors. https://jendeindustries.wordpress.com/tag/shapton-glass-stones/

Seems there is some difference in the binder used on the 16k compared to the lower grit Shapton glass series, according to that writer.
 
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The 500, 2k, 16k works very well on Japanese kitchen knives.
 
For most knives I only go to 8k on the Shapton system. 16k and 30k are straight razor range. Japanese or super steels that absolutely love high polishes get 16k. I think more importantly is not what you use, but how you use it your angles, finish, technique should be reliant on what you require the final product to be and how it should perform. A survival camp knife doesn't need a 4.5dps at 30k grit just as a general kitchen knife shouldn't be finished at 800 grit at 30 deg overall.
 
weaponwh said:
isn't that a big jump from 2k to 16k.
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Yes, it is!

But,

It's not about polishing the edge when making that large jump, it's about deburring and finalizing the edge. The 16k works more like a strop that's capable of quickly removing burrs and if needed it's still able to "polish" the edge.

Making large jumps with waterstones allows you to produce a "toothy polished" edge, this edge type seems to provide better edge retention and cutting performance. It's why factory knives are ground with very coarse edges then polished sharp. Because the Shaptons are fast cutting ceramic stones it's easy to use stones with big gaps in the grit progression to make edges not normally possible with other stones.

I've even gone from the 500 to the 16k which I think is an even better combo than the 2k and 16k.
 
Jason B. said:
Yes, it is!

But,

It's not about polishing the edge when making that large jump, it's about deburring and finalizing the edge. The 16k works more like a strop that's capable of quickly removing burrs and if needed it's still able to "polish" the edge.

Making large jumps with waterstones allows you to produce a "toothy polished" edge, this edge type seems to provide better edge retention and cutting performance. It's why factory knives are ground with very coarse edges then polished sharp. Because the Shaptons are fast cutting ceramic stones it's easy to use stones with big gaps in the grit progression to make edges not normally possible with other stones.

I've even gone from the 500 to the 16k which I think is an even better combo than the 2k and 16k.
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How many passes do you make on the 16K when jumping from the 500 grit to deburr and slightly polish the edge with the 16K? I've been thinking about doing either the 320 or 500 grit to 16K for the reasons that you mentioned, so a little guidance is appreciated. I'm thinking I'll full bevel sharpen on the coarser grit, then jump the angle up and microbevel. It seems obvious to say you'll need more passes on S110V than on Super Blue to get the same effect with the 16K microbevel, but a general guideline would be greatly appreciated. I'll probably have to experiment with it and see what I like best, but with your experience I'm sure you'll point me in the right direction.
 
Tough question,

It's going to depend on the quality of edge prep done on the coarse stone. If you have done very well preparing the edge then just a few passes will do, if the edge prep is not correct then the results will probably suck.

What do I mean by edge prep? Good edge prep is simply making the edge the best it can be on the coarser stone before making the jump to 16k. Shaving sharp and almost burr free on the coarse will only make the fine stone work better.

If you jump straight to a microbevel then it shouldn't take much to finish the edge on the 16k
 
Jason B. said:
Tough question,

It's going to depend on the quality of edge prep done on the coarse stone. If you have done very well preparing the edge then just a few passes will do, if the edge prep is not correct then the results will probably suck.

What do I mean by edge prep? Good edge prep is simply making the edge the best it can be on the coarser stone before making the jump to 16k. Shaving sharp and almost burr free on the coarse will only make the fine stone work better.

If you jump straight to a microbevel then it shouldn't take much to finish the edge on the 16k
Click to expand...


Thanks, I am big on edge prep. I always make the edge as sharp and burr free as possible with every grit, and I use a lighted microscope to visually check my edges. Even with very coarse stones I get arm shaving sharp edges before moving on to the next stone. When I finish on each stone, I usually do a high angle pass to deburr, then hit the edge again with a few light passes at the angle I was sharpening at to get the sharpness back without forming a new burr. That has worked reliably for me to get the cleanest edge I can. By moving to the 16K with a microbevel, I guessing a few very light passes will be all I need on most every steel. I'm sharpening S110V for the first time on my glasstones tonight, so I'm not sure how well the 16K will cut that steel. The coarser grit stones cut S90V just fine for me, but the finer the grits, the less well the glasstones cut and polish (compared to how they cut Steels in the S30V class). Since I'm not trying to polish out a whole bevel, and just putting on a slight microbevel to knock off any slight burr and slightly polish a toothy edge, I don't think there will be any problems even with S110V, though.
 
HeavyHanded said:
Don't know squat about the Glasstones, but s110v I'd be reaching for a DMT EEF to microbevel.
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I may end up doing that. I never fully broke mine in though and it doesn't leave a very uniform scratch pattern when I try to mirror an edge. It doesn't really matter though when microbeveling a coarse edge though, so the DMT XXF probably is the right tool for the job on S110V. I just like using my glasstones on everything else so I'll try them out first before going to the DMT.
 
I usually revert to the 4% rule, more than 4% vanadium and I start looking for my diamond hones. My Glass stones will work on steels in the 4% range but I can feel the abrasive struggle as the grit gets finer.

Personally, I like the Coarse DMT followed by some stropping when sharpening high V steels.
 
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