Shapton Glass vs soft stainless

ejames13 · Feb 24, 2019

Hi all. I recently ordered a SG500 for my Edge Pro. First knife I tried it on was a X50 Cr Mo V15 stainless kitchen knife. I am unable to get a clean edge on it. Under a loupe it looks like there is a tiny burr, but not so severe that the edge shouldn’t slice newsprint, but it won’t. I tried three separate times from scratch, and still no dice. Yes I am positive I’m hitting the apex. Finishing with very light strokes.

I have no problem getting this knife to push cut newsprint off of the Edge Pro 400 grit stock stone.

Any thoughts?

bucketstove · Feb 24, 2019

ejames13 said:
Hi all. I recently ordered a SG500 for my Edge Pro. First knife I tried it on was a X50 Cr Mo V15 stainless kitchen knife. I am unable to get a clean edge on it. Under a loupe it looks like there is a tiny burr, but not so severe that the edge shouldn’t slice newsprint, but it won’t. I tried three separate times from scratch, and still no dice. Yes I am positive I’m hitting the apex. Finishing with very light strokes.

I have no problem getting this knife to push cut newsprint off of the Edge Pro 400 grit stock stone.

Any thoughts?

Hi,
Is the stone removing metal?
Double the angle to cut off the burr?
Trying from scratch, did you cut off the apex ?

ejames13 · Feb 24, 2019

bucketstove said:
Hi,
Is the stone removing metal?
Double the angle to cut off the burr?
Trying from scratch, did you cut off the apex ?

Stone is definitely removing metal. I did slightly increase the angle (not double) and it was marginally better but still great. I didn’t try cutting off the apex yet. Just raised a burr and tried to remove it. I will give that a shot. Just strange I’ve never had this problem with the Edge Pro Stones.

bgentry · Feb 24, 2019

The word around here is that ceramic stones produce more burr than other stone types, particularly on soft steels. Edge leading strokes are normally a good recipe for removing the burr. Or perhaps try to deburr on another type of stone?

Brian.

Wowbagger · Feb 24, 2019

bgentry said:
The word around here is that ceramic stones produce more burr than other stone types, particularly on soft steels. Edge leading strokes are normally a good recipe for removing the burr. Or perhaps try to deburr on another type of stone?

Brian.

I totally agree with this ^
I would use the Glass on better / harder alloys and use the Stock stone on the stainless.
Edge leading to finish works wonders one or two passes per side and flip back and forth.
Maybe then edge trailing once per side alternating to get that silly sharpness maxed out.

RadialBladeworks · Feb 24, 2019

Well, the EP 400 is approximately half as coarse as the Shapton Glass 500. They use a different grit scale. Deburring completely off of such a coarse and aggressive stone is going to be quite difficult. The EP 400 is more apt for comparison with the SG 1000

Edit: the point being that it is likely you still have significant burr remaining, due to the sheer cutting-effectiveness of the SG 500. Even a little bit of burr is going to shit on your cutting performance

ejames13 · Feb 24, 2019

Beansandcarrots said:
Well, the EP 400 is approximately half as coarse as the Shapton Glass 500. They use a different grit scale. Deburring completely off of such a coarse and aggressive stone is going to be quite difficult. The EP 400 is more apt for comparison with the SG 1000

Edit: the point being that it is likely you still have significant burr remaining, due to the sheer cutting-effectiveness of the SG 500. Even a little bit of burr is going to shit on your cutting performance

That makes sense, but the strange thing is I can get a much better edge even off the EP 220 stone. That makes me think it’s more due to the composition of the stone than the grit level?

RadialBladeworks · Feb 25, 2019

ejames13 said:
That makes sense, but the strange thing is I can get a much better edge even off the EP 220 stone. That makes me think it’s more due to the composition of the stone than the grit level?

I’d agee with you 100%. The Shapton stones basically require no pressure to cut, leaving you with little ability to minimize the cutting of a given grit. The EP 220, on the other hand, is quite hard, allowing you to back pressure off all the way to the point of no cutting whatsoever. So the lighter pressure you use, the more you will be able to refine the edge on a given stone, because it won’t be cutting as deeply. The Edge Pro stones are pretty awesome at this. Another example would be the Norton Crystolon stones which are savagely aggressive with pressure, yet allow you to deburr surprisingly effectively simply by using an appropriately light-handed stroke. Fun stuff to play around with

Outdoors55, Alex, exemplifies this in one of his sharpening videos, “Don’t Buy Expensive Waterstones” or something like that, where he showcases the stock Edge Pro stones and even displays a hair whittling edge using nothing but the EP220 and minimal stropping

Edit: Link to the correct video here:

Mr.Wizard · Feb 25, 2019

RadialBladeworks This video?

He uses an F600 stone rather than the 220. I honestly don't find his result that impressive; you can that sharpness off the 600 without stropping if you're careful. The EP 220 is or was ten years ago (I haven't bought another) a weird stone though, and it is entirely plausible for it to cut slower than the 600. Especially if blunted though use or lapping on a diamond plate it just skates on hard steel and wide bevels; persistence in such conditions can actually produce a scratchy mirror finish. Its behavior is a little like this.

ejames13 · Feb 25, 2019

Beansandcarrots said:
I’d agee with you 100%. The Shapton stones basically require no pressure to cut, leaving you with little ability to minimize the cutting of a given grit. The EP 220, on the other hand, is quite hard, allowing you to back pressure off all the way to the point of no cutting whatsoever. So the lighter pressure you use, the more you will be able to refine the edge on a given stone, because it won’t be cutting as deeply. The Edge Pro stones are pretty awesome at this. Another example would be the Norton Crystolon stones which are savagely aggressive with pressure, yet allow you to deburr surprisingly effectively simply by using an appropriately light-handed stroke. Fun stuff to play around with

Outdoors55, Alex, exemplifies this in one of his sharpening videos, “Don’t Buy Expensive Waterstones” or something like that, where he showcases the stock Edge Pro stones and even displays an example of a hair whittling edge using nothing but the EP220 and minimal stropping

Ah that makes sense. Although I thought it was because the EP stones are softer than the SG not harder. In any case I definitely see what you mean and I view that as a real benefit over the glass stones.

That said, I took another shot at it this afternoon after cutting off the apex and that seemed to make a considerable difference. Still couldn’t get the edge where I wanted it right off the stone, but stripped with 3um diamond paste on leather, then bare leather, and was able to push cut newsprint with the grain and slice across the grain.

ejames13 · Feb 25, 2019

Mr.Wizard said:
RadialBladeworks This video?

He uses an F600 stone rather than the 220. I honestly don't find his result that impressive; you can that sharpness off the 600 without stropping if you're careful. The EP 220 is or was ten years ago (I haven't bought another) a weird stone though, and it is entirely plausible for it to cut slower than the 600. Especially if blunted though use or lapping on a diamond plate it just skates on hard steel and wide bevels; persistence in such conditions can actually produce a scratchy mirror finish. Its behavior is a little like this.

I’m glad I’m not the only one who finds the EP 220 to be a strange stone. I thought I was a little crazy when I observed that the 400 grit seems to cut just as quickly if not more so than the 220. I don’t have the 600 EP stone but just ordered it because I’ve heard good things. I really like the finish left by the 400.

RadialBladeworks · Feb 25, 2019

Mr.Wizard said:
RadialBladeworks This video?

He uses an F600 stone rather than the 220. I honestly don't find his result that impressive; you can that sharpness off the 600 without stropping if you're careful. The EP 220 is or was ten years ago (I haven't bought another) a weird stone though, and it is entirely plausible for it to cut slower than the 600. Especially if blunted though use or lapping on a diamond plate it just skates on hard steel and wide bevels; persistence in such conditions can actually produce a scratchy mirror finish. Its behavior is a little like this.

Sorry, I screwed up the name of the video. This is the example here:

Just skip to 6:05 to see the demonstration

NORTHWEST_KNIFE_GUY · Feb 25, 2019

On my EP I find that shorter into the edge strokes normally remove even the most stubborn burrs.

Mr.Wizard · Feb 26, 2019

ejames13 The EP 400 and 600 are different compositions but I like both of them. What do you have coarser than that, other than the EP 220?

ejames13 · Feb 26, 2019

Mr.Wizard said:
ejames13 The EP 400 and 600 are different compositions but I like both of them. What do you have coarser than that, other than the EP 220?

Yea I am interested to see the difference in finish between the 400 and 600. I have the CKTG 140 diamond plate I use for reprofiling. Seems to get the job done and the EP 220 stone has no problem removing the scratch pattern.