Shapton or chosera?

[dizL]

I am looking at getting the TSProf sharpening system and was wondering if anybody has had first hand experience with this system, the shapton stones or chosera stones for those systems and were they the naniwa or chosera, and shapton glass or pro?

Also, the chosera stones only go down to 400 grit where shapton and others go a little more. If I were to choose the Chosera stones would the 400 be enough to do heavy profiling or fixing within a timely manner or would I need to find a lower grit stone? And I know the general rule is to not mix diamond and whetstone but could a 120/220 diamond stone be used for heavy work then switch to something like the chosera 400 or is that not good?

Thanks!
Andy

 

[Wowbagger]

shapton and others go a little more.

I have no first hand experience with the sharpener you mentioned and have no experience with the softer stones you mentioned ( I have used, and found extremely adequate, Norton water stones before going to other stones for the higher alloy steels).
So what business have I to interrupt your thread like this ?
Just one small thing. Shapton glass stones for guided sharpeners can be had down to 120. I must warn you how ever that they tend to be softer than the other Shapton Glass stones. I find them to be too soft.
I would recommend going to coarse or extra coarse or in some cases extra, extra coarse diamond plates for the coarsest stones (especially for the high vanadium blades) because they will last longer and you will not have to be flattening them all the time like the soft, very coarse. SG stones.

 

[Wowbagger]

Chosera stones would the 400 be enough to do heavy profiling or fixing within a timely manner or would I need to find a lower grit stone? And I know the general rule is to not mix diamond and whetstone or is that not good?

Oh what the heck I may as well go again until you get others writing about your exact case :
No reason not to mix diamond at the reprofiling end of the process with the softer water stones for refining. Just don't do the refining with diamond if you can help it because they don't leave as polished a finish and as keen an edge . . . although a DMT 8,000 diamond plate on S110V leaves a pretty impressive push cutting edge.

For reprofiling, even S110V, I recommend very coarse at 220 or even more coarse diamond.
Can take for ever other wise. 400 ? Nah dude, nah.

but could a 120/220 diamond stone be used for heavy work then switch to something like the chosera 400

YES !
Perfect combo.

 

[dizL]

I have no first hand experience with the sharpener you mentioned and have no experience with the softer stones you mentioned ( I have used, and found extremely adequate, Norton water stones before going to other stones for the higher alloy steels).
So what business have I to interrupt your thread like this ?
Just one small thing. Shapton glass stones for guided sharpeners can be had down to 120. I must warn you how ever that they tend to be softer than the other Shapton Glass stones. I find them to be too soft.
I would recommend going to coarse or extra coarse or in some cases extra, extra coarse diamond plates for the coarsest stones (especially for the high vanadium blades) because they will last longer and you will not have to be flattening them all the time like the soft, very coarse. SG stones.
View attachment 875367

Yes, I have seen the Shapton glass at 220, 320, 500, 1000 and the shapton pro at 120, 220, 320, 1000. I like the Shapton glass grit range a little better then the pro but I'm a bit confused what the difference is between the Glass and Pro as well as the naniwa super stones and the chosera stones. They all seem to be Aluminum Oxide and the only difference i can find between them is how they are attached to the aluminum blanks.

Also you said the Shaptons are on the softer side but what are you comparing that to? The chosera stones or diamond or....?

I have not heard much about Norton Stones, I was asking about the shapton and chosera stones more because those are the brands Ive heard of lol but I will look into them!

 

[Wowbagger]

Also you said the Shaptons are on the softer side but what are you comparing that to? The chosera stones or diamond or....?

Now above all the Shaptons were all, in theory, Shapton Glass (the white ones). Comparing the Shapton Glass 220, 500, 1000 and 4000 to the Jende 120 in my photo with the quarter the Jende 120 looses grit much faster than any of the others and if it stays wet for a day while I sharpen various things it seems to just keep getting softer and softer. I never soak it and only rinse it enough to get the swarf out of the pores while sharpening and after a while it get so soft I feel like tossing it in the trash. I haven't yet. Probably after I get a similar diamond plate that will fit in my Edge Pro I will never use the Jende again. It sharpens, even M4, but it is TOOOOOOOOOOO soft when wet for long. The other stones do perfectly fine and I highly recommend them. No regrets with those (220 through 4,000).

The Norton stones were just for example; most people have used them or started out with them because they have been around for ever and are more common in America than other stones. Here are some Nortons :
White is 4,000, yellow is 8,000, my most used stones. Tan is 700 and the grey is 220. The Norton Grey is a completely useless stone; even softer than the Jende 120.

The Norton 4,000 (it happens to be a white stone)


The Norton 8,000 yellow


I cut the stones part way through (just scored them really) and then broke off small pieces.


for use on small blades like these. That's a ZDP-189 blade.
Not saying it is worth it for you to go through but you asked about Norton stones.

 

[Wowbagger]

Also you said the Shaptons are on the softer side but what are you comparing that to? The chosera stones or diamond or....?

To be clear I said

Shapton glass stones for guided sharpeners can be had down to 120. I must warn you how ever that they tend to be softer than the other Shapton Glass stones. I find them to be too soft.

When I said "they tend to be softer than the other Shapton Glass stones" I suppose that is the confusion.
I meant that the Shapton Glass stones below 220 seem to be softer than the ones 220 and finer. I don't recall how many more coarse than the 220 are for sale other than the 120 ; maybe only the 120.

Sorry to be confusing. The Shapton Glass stones in general tend to be on the hard side meaning they stay flat and resist wearing and cupping better than the Shapton Pros and the Nortons for sure.

The Shapton Glass tend to have special needs to flatten them. Search for Atoma 140 and flattening and conditioning Shapton Glass stones.

 

[dizL]

ohh ok, that makes more sense. thank you very much for the info!

 

[wade7575]

dizL if you are going to sharpen steels that have less vanadium in them the Chosera's are good stones and really do a good job if you wanted polished edge's and really seem to outshine most other stones when it comes to polishing,also don't feel as if you can't mix and match brands when sharpening for example I have not used a shapton 120 grit glass stone but listen to wowbagger he knows his stuff and gives good advice I myself don't hate the shapton glass stones but at the same time I really don't care for them to much because not much metal comes off when using them and it's harder to tell how much progress you are making with them also the glass stones are aluminum oxide with an extremely hard bonding agent and do not cut that fast if you ask me.

I'm going to be reviewing some new and very cheap stones called Gritalons that I just got a few days ago that are Silicon carbide and I think the average less then 10 bucks us funds a peace and the bonding agent is a bit harder then the TSprof's stones,what I suggest is if you are not going to be sharpening steels like S90 and S110v then you may want to try those after I test them if they seem to cut good.

Another thing to keep in mind is that with pretty much any water stone the lower the grit the faster the stone will wear and the higher the grit the slower it will wear,I have used the Chosera's and like them but they need to be flattened every once and a while and you also need to soak them for 15 minutes at least before using them and also make sure you wet them when sharpening as well,I also find with the Chosera's if you sharpen 1 knife and then put them away and sharpen another knife and put them away after about 2 or 3 sharpening sessions like that they will seem to just stop cutting and will not cut anything at all,what happens is they glaze over and it's not a big problem to deal with I just use a cheap long lasting product called a rust eraser just look at them in the link they work better then using a diamond plate to remove the glaze because they remove less of the stone but do not use them for flattening just deglazing the stone and it takes about 6 to 10 full length strokes and they should be deglazed.

You want to buy the ones in the blue package or the medium grit they seem to work the best as the ones in the yellow package are a fine grit,you can also use these on harder water stones like the gritalons and shapton stones to remove any metal that has clogged the stone and does not need to be flattened and you just want to remove any metal that has built up.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Japanese-k...892566?hash=item33d101ddd6:g:7koAAOSwOMdZRhB4

Gritalon stones also the AO means those ones are aluminum oxide.

https://sharpeningstones.ru/cat/точильные-камни-для-apex/россия/gritalon

 

[dizL]

Thank you Wade7575. As far as what types of metals ill be sharpening, its going to be all over the place from nicer chef's knives to pocket knives. I personally have some buck knives, benchmade and tops and all are different types haha.

So maybe a better question would be what stones will be a good all around stone for most types of metals or is that even a thing? On the tsprof website they have a couple types of stones (profile abrasives, A Boride kit, and the Boride T2 kit) are they any good? Also, how do you know if diamond, silicon carbide, Boride or aluminum oxide is the "right" stone to use depending on the blade material or is it more about personal prefrence?

And I have heard great things about the rust eraser and will definitely grab one once I order stones.

 

[wade7575]

There is no one right or wrong kind of stone what it really boils down to is what stones work best for the steel your sharpening,if it were me I wouldn't bother with the boride stones they are more money then they are worth if you asking me.

You will find Silicon Carbide stones to work best on almost any metal but then again it going to depend on what Silicon Carbide stones you get,for example the Tsprof stones are just a rebranded stone that is also sold under the name Grinderman and they are alright stones for what they are but again they are not the hardest stones out there and that's because they are not bonded together with the hardest bonding agent where as the Gritalons from what I have been told by Andrew the guy who runs sharpeningstones.ru they use a harder bonding agent.

Here is one example of what people sometimes get wrong about sharpening stones,if you have a stone regardless of what it is made from whether it be Sililcon Carbide or Aluminum Oxide if the stone use's a softer bonding agent to hold the grit together you will find tat those stones will sharpen a knife faster but at the same time will need to be flattened more and will wear out faster,what happens with a stone that is softer and breaks down faster is that fresh sharp abrasive is be exposed constantly witch means it will cut faster only up to a certain point where as a harder stone will wear longer and cut slower but will not need to be flattened as often and last longer and also save you money,the other thing about what I said is you have to compare apple to apples and oranges to oranges because it's very unlikely you will find an Aluminum Oxide stone that will cut as fast as a Silicon Carbide stone.

If you look on Gritomatic just google that name and it will come up the Venev stones are really good and will cut any steel you throw in front of them but are costly for what you get so you would only want to use them on steels like S110v and other steels that are very wear resistant,also I don't use diamond plates for sharpening they wear out to fast for the money and the problem with them is the diamonds tend to hook into the softer parts of the steel like Chromium and then get torn off the diamond plate,diamond plates are good for flattening stones and last along time for that and also Silicon Carbide powder is good for flattening as well but be careful not to breath the dust in it is safe when you add water to it just make sure not to breath it in until you add water to it.

Wait until I review the Gritalons if they are as good as what I have been told they should be an awesome stone for the money I'm planning on trying them tomorrow or sometime this week,also the Chosera stones are great stones for polishing and really work I have used them to sharpen many steels but never S110v and I don't think they would do much to it and I would only use the higher grits for polishing S110v if I was going for a polished edge.

What kind of steels do you have right now and also what kind of kitchen knives do you do you have any high end Japanese chef knives,if I knew the what kind of steels you have I could better advise you as to what you could try.

 

[dizL]

There is no one right or wrong kind of stone what it really boils down to is what stones work best for the steel your sharpening,if it were me I wouldn't bother with the boride stones they are more money then they are worth if you asking me.

You will find Silicon Carbide stones to work best on almost any metal but then again it going to depend on what Silicon Carbide stones you get,for example the Tsprof stones are just a rebranded stone that is also sold under the name Grinderman and they are alright stones for what they are but again they are not the hardest stones out there and that's because they are not bonded together with the hardest bonding agent where as the Gritalons from what I have been told by Andrew the guy who runs sharpeningstones.ru they use a harder bonding agent.

Here is one example of what people sometimes get wrong about sharpening stones,if you have a stone regardless of what it is made from whether it be Sililcon Carbide or Aluminum Oxide if the stone use's a softer bonding agent to hold the grit together you will find tat those stones will sharpen a knife faster but at the same time will need to be flattened more and will wear out faster,what happens with a stone that is softer and breaks down faster is that fresh sharp abrasive is be exposed constantly witch means it will cut faster only up to a certain point where as a harder stone will wear longer and cut slower but will not need to be flattened as often and last longer and also save you money,the other thing about what I said is you have to compare apple to apples and oranges to oranges because it's very unlikely you will find an Aluminum Oxide stone that will cut as fast as a Silicon Carbide stone.

If you look on Gritomatic just google that name and it will come up the Venev stones are really good and will cut any steel you throw in front of them but are costly for what you get so you would only want to use them on steels like S110v and other steels that are very wear resistant,also I don't use diamond plates for sharpening they wear out to fast for the money and the problem with them is the diamonds tend to hook into the softer parts of the steel like Chromium and then get torn off the diamond plate,diamond plates are good for flattening stones and last along time for that and also Silicon Carbide powder is good for flattening as well but be careful not to breath the dust in it is safe when you add water to it just make sure not to breath it in until you add water to it.

Wait until I review the Gritalons if they are as good as what I have been told they should be an awesome stone for the money I'm planning on trying them tomorrow or sometime this week,also the Chosera stones are great stones for polishing and really work I have used them to sharpen many steels but never S110v and I don't think they would do much to it and I would only use the higher grits for polishing S110v if I was going for a polished edge.

What kind of steels do you have right now and also what kind of kitchen knives do you do you have any high end Japanese chef knives,if I knew the what kind of steels you have I could better advise you as to what you could try.

Ok, that does make a lot of sense. On the kit I'm looking at it comes with a set of boride stones so I'll have them one way or another. And how can I find your review on the grotilons?

Also I have been on gritomatic, and sharpeningsupplies.com, and oldawan and it seems like every one of them has a problem keeping stuff in stock and that's making it hard to buy a set of stones. Lol

I personally don't have a nice set of kitchen knives but I have some friends who are chefs and I'm going to be sharpening their knives but I have a couple older buck knives that are probably on the lower end, benchmades are s30v and s90v, tops is 1095 and something else I can't remember of the top of my head. Then I have a pocket Japanese katana folder that is pretty hard if I remember correctly.

 

[wade7575]

I have yet to post a review of the Gritalons but will be doing so very soon hopefully,I'm going threw a lot of stuff right now that has come up and I hoping I will be getting thing's slowed down in my life soon again and things can go back to normal,copy and paste this this website into google they also have a translation option on their site in the upper right hand corner sharpeningstone.ru that is where you can find the Gritalon stones,also the stones that are included with your Tsprof are Silicon Carbide stones also sold under the name Grinderman and are an alright stone but they use a softer bonding agent and will wear a bit faster don't get me wrong the Tsprof stones are horrible just not first pick.

 

[dizL]

Perfect! Thank you very much Wowbagger and Wade7575! I really appreciate the information, it definitely helped out.

 

[wade7575]

Here is a link to the start of the review I just posted it and did the picture part of it and will be doing the testing very soon.

https://bladeforums.com/threads/gritalon-silicon-carbide-and-aluminum-oxide-stones-review.1563787/

Ok, that does make a lot of sense. On the kit I'm looking at it comes with a set of boride stones so I'll have them one way or another. And how can I find your review on the grotilons?

Also I have been on gritomatic, and sharpeningsupplies.com, and oldawan and it seems like every one of them has a problem keeping stuff in stock and that's making it hard to buy a set of stones. Lol

I personally don't have a nice set of kitchen knives but I have some friends who are chefs and I'm going to be sharpening their knives but I have a couple older buck knives that are probably on the lower end, benchmades are s30v and s90v, tops is 1095 and something else I can't remember of the top of my head. Then I have a pocket Japanese katana folder that is pretty hard if I remember correctly.

 

[wade7575]

dizL The full review of those Gritalon stones is now done I will be doing more testing later on with the.

https://bladeforums.com/threads/gritalon-silicon-carbide-and-aluminum-oxide-stones-review.1563787/