Shapton pro series

S

Slim7

Joined
Oct 11, 2015
Messages
84
Hello,

I'm going to buy a shapton finishing stone,
but I not real Knowledgeable about these
stones. I currently use natural Arkansas stones.
I plan to still use my arks, but I'm looking for a
finishing stone. I tend to like a semi polished edge
with a little tooth/bite. I'm looking at buying either a
Shapton pro 1.5k, or a 2k. In grit what are both of
these stones grit rating in USA chart? What man-made
or natural stone do these stones compare to, as far as
the finish/scratchpattern
it leaves on a blade?
 
You can compare numbers all day and get nowhere.

First, if you buy a waterstone keep it away from oil. It can damage the stone.

Next, Shapton waterstones cut very fast, faster than a Medium Arkansas stone but with a finer finish. Once you try one you will probably quickly make the switch to all Shapton.

As an intro to the world of waterstones I recommend you select the Shapton Pro 2000. This stone will be the first step in producing a higher polish and allow you to progress to finer stones if you wish. It also has enough cutting power to remove the coarser grind marks that can plague high polished finishes. Personally, I like to finish my sharpening at 2000 grit, it yields a very sharp but still somewhat toothy edge that I find to be a good balance for a lasting cutting edge.

The only thing to be aware of is, these are very hard ceramic and its recommended to use a diamond lapping plate for flattening.
 
Last edited:
DeadboxHero said:
Hey Jason, does the Shapton Glass 2k hr leave a different finish then the pro?
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Yes, the glass stones polish more as they sharpen so you get a brighter finish for the given grit. The edge gains a bit of refinement too.

The real difference is in hardness and how tight the abrasive is held within the binder. The Shapton Glass stones have a looser bond but are harder stones, this causes the stone to cut very fast and wear slowly but they do wear faster than the Pro stones. The Shapton Pro stone have a tighter bond but are softer stones, (I'm using these terms loosely, Shapton stones are very hard) this makes the seem harder but you get little to no mud build-up because the abrasive releases so much slower. However, from 120-320 in the Pros the result if a fairly muddy stone.
 
Jason B. said:
Yes, the glass stones polish more as they sharpen so you get a brighter finish for the given grit. The edge gains a bit of refinement too.

The real difference is in hardness and how tight the abrasive is held within the binder. The Shapton Glass stones have a looser bond but are harder stones, this causes the stone to cut very fast and wear slowly but they do wear faster than the Pro stones. The Shapton Pro stone have a tighter bond but are softer stones, (I'm using these terms loosely, Shapton stones are very hard) this makes the seem harder but you get little to no mud build-up because the abrasive releases so much slower. However, from 120-320 in the Pros the result if a fairly muddy stone.
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Any upside to mixing stones?... e.g. having a set containing both Glass and Pro? Any reason to have sets of each? Or just stick with one type? I recently got myself a set of glass to start with... I went back and forth for a few weeks before taking the plunge.
 
Jason B. said:
Yes, the glass stones polish more as they sharpen so you get a brighter finish for the given grit. The edge gains a bit of refinement too.

The real difference is in hardness and how tight the abrasive is held within the binder. The Shapton Glass stones have a looser bond but are harder stones, this causes the stone to cut very fast and wear slowly but they do wear faster than the Pro stones. The Shapton Pro stone have a tighter bond but are softer stones, (I'm using these terms loosely, Shapton stones are very hard) this makes the seem harder but you get little to no mud build-up because the abrasive releases so much slower. However, from 120-320 in the Pros the result if a fairly muddy stone.
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Great info man.
efaden said:
Any upside to mixing stones?... e.g. having a set containing both Glass and Pro? Any reason to have sets of each? Or just stick with one type? I recently got myself a set of glass to start with... I went back and forth for a few weeks before taking the plunge.
Click to expand...
Yea, I'm curious about that too.


Also Jason, those glass stones seem quite thin. Im weary about abrasive to cost ratio. Is the performance overwhelming enough to over come this? Or do they last a while compared to the Shapton pro?

Thanks again Jason
 
All Shaptons are designed to last as long as the average 25mm stone. This is not to say you can't wear one out faster or slower, but how long the stone will last is comparable to most any other stone. And yes, the performance means you will spend less time sharpening so you won't wear the stones that much.

The Shapton Glass stones are the better of the two in performance but they have very little feedback in use. For this reason many tend to migrate to using the Pro stones as they have much more feedback. For me, I like the smooth grinding feel of the Shapton Glass and they work with more steels so it's a win win.

Mixing stone sets? Tough question.

I have both pro and glass stones, but I also have Chosera, Nubatama, imanishi, etc, etc. I'm addicted to stones so I might not be the best one to answer this question, lol. Every stone has unique strong points and weak points, they will work better with one steel and do nothing but dull the other. For me I need many stones to sharpen many types of tools, for everyone else you get the best tools you can and master them.
 
Jason B. said:
All Shaptons are designed to last as long as the average 25mm stone. This is not to say you can't wear one out faster or slower, but how long the stone will last is comparable to most any other stone. And yes, the performance means you will spend less time sharpening so you won't wear the stones that much.

The Shapton Glass stones are the better of the two in performance but they have very little feedback in use. For this reason many tend to migrate to using the Pro stones as they have much more feedback. For me, I like the smooth grinding feel of the Shapton Glass and they work with more steels so it's a win win.

Mixing stone sets? Tough question.

I have both pro and glass stones, but I also have Chosera, Nubatama, imanishi, etc, etc. I'm addicted to stones so I might not be the best one to answer this question, lol. Every stone has unique strong points and weak points, they will work better with one steel and do nothing but dull the other. For me I need many stones to sharpen many types of tools, for everyone else you get the best tools you can and master them.
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Thanks for the info... I think a set of Pro's are still on my list, but I'm going to play with my glass stones for a while first.
 
Jason B. said:
You can compare numbers all day and get nowhere.
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I disagree, while we can discuss wear rates, frangibility of sharpening media and possibly a few other things, media is rated by numbers. Understanding how those numbers translate to microns is probably the most important part when looking at edge refinement.
 
Skimo said:
I disagree, while we can discuss wear rates, frangibility of sharpening media and possibly a few other things, media is rated by numbers. Understanding how those numbers translate to microns is probably the most important part when looking at edge refinement.
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Maybe, but I have several different 2000 grit waterstones and none of them act the same. That's why I say that.
 
That is one of the reasons the grit chart is helpful, it's about the finish, not the user experience. Granted I sharpen for utility and satisfaction of a well done edge and not for feel.
 
^ Skimo, you're missing at least two important points. Yes, the grit chart attempts to relate abrasives based on the micron size of the abrasive, and in some cases, estimation. But what you're missing is:

1. Different abrasive types, of the exact same size in microns, cut differently. First, particle shape makes a big difference. Diamonds cut differently than waterstones and leave a different looking finish, even at the same micron size. That's because diamond particles are pointy and dig more deeply into the media they cut.

Different abrasive types also cut different types of steel differently. As the hardness of the material being cut approaches the hardness of the abrasive, things start to really change. Carbide tear out, or "fall out" can happen when the abrasive only cuts the softer matrix of the steel and not the carbides themselves. As an example.

Friability also influences the way an abrasive cuts, particularly if the friable components break down into smaller sized particles. Like with some waterstones.
2. Despite there being a Japanese standard for abrasives called JIS, waterstones don't seem to adhere to this standard very closely. I'm basing this on what I've read here. I routinely read people saying a certain 800 grit waterstone cuts "more like a 1000 grit". Or that a 1200 grit waterstone is "really much closer to a 1000 grit". I don't know if it's just a lack of attention to particle size, or if it has more to do with friability, or what. I just know I read these reports over and over again.

So the numbers really only tell you part of the story. The rest has to be experienced by someone and reported for an accurate measure of how a stone really cuts specific types of steel.

Brian.
 
I don't miss any of that, I've been sharpening HHT-4 edges quickly and very reliably for years. OP asked for grit comparison, this means the OP has a rather limited knowledge of the various sharpening media. I could probably talk for hours with another sharpener about stones that are slippery, cut finer or faster on 8cr, aus8, 154cm, s30v, m4, d2, 1075, 1095, elmax and whatever other steels I remember sharpening. This just isn't the thread to write about it.
 
Brian,

On #2, That's because there are two different JIS ratings plus some such as Shapton use Mesh.
 
I to sharpen for utility use, and not for the feel of the stone. I want the edge to perform correctly for the task I'm using it for.I'm not concerned on how fast the stone cuts compared to Arkansas stones, I'm concerned on what kind of scratch pattern/tooth it will leave. I only like a semi polished edge with some tooth, I don't want a mirror.Could you tell me what kind of scratch pattern the shapton pro 2k uses compared to stones I have used? I familiar with all spyderco grits, and all Arkansas stone grits.
Skimo said:
That is one of the reasons the grit chart is helpful, it's about the finish, not the user experience. Gra!nted I sharpen for utility and satisfaction of a well done edge and not for feel.
Click to expand...
 
The Shapton Pro stones are a good fit for you I would think. But nobody can decide for you. There are to many variables. All you can do is try one and work with it to see if it fulfills expectations. Of the Shapton Pro stones I have the 1500 is my favorite for certain steels before moving on to higher grits. As far as relating a relationship to the Spyderco and Arkansas stones I can't say. The Shapton Pro 1500 or 2K would work well for you. Its more about technique and pressure than the media.
 
Slim7 I know you say you are not looking for a particular feel in a stone, but for myself going from arks to the shapton pros was an uncomfortable adjustment. The pros are super slick by comparison and lack that smooth tactile feel and sound when sharpening. This continues to put me off of the pros.
 
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