Sharp Table Cutlery

U

UnknownVT

Joined
Feb 15, 2003
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with the recent tightened security aircrafts now only use plastic cutlery - substituting for even the dull metal stuff once used. This kind of gives creedence to the old Chinese take on using chopsticks - ie: they do not bring weapons to the dining table....

However when you are at home and wish to serve something like steak for dinner what knives do you use, and why?

Is there a difference between eating just in the family, or when there is company?

Is there a more "formal" table cutlery that's suitable for steaks and the like?

For example I bought many years ago a set of Victorinox serrated Utility knives to use as steak knives that are suitable for everyday eating as well as informal company dining.

Victorinox 4" Utility knife black nylon handle "Wavy" edge
fc1c18b4.jpg


I can no longer find the black handled version, but it is still available in white nylon handle (#42604) - low priced at about $3.60 as well as a rosewood 4 3/4".

Much as I prefer plain edges - the reason I chose the serrated blade was because the meat cut would be on china/ceramic plates which would definitely blunt a plain edge in no time.

Victorinox do sell a low priced 4 3/4" nylon handled steak knife, model #40505 (low priced at about $3.60)
40505_l.jpg

the photos looks like a serrated edge.
 
The "Steak Knife" has long been a part of formal dinner settings. They are often serrated. They do not strictly have to match the rest of the silverwear, but often do.

This is, but the way, a great chance for you to bring your cutlery hobby to the table. How about a nice set of steak knives with Mother of Pearl handles in ATS-34? Yes, they have to be hand-washed. But, if you have six people for dinner, that's just six knives to hand wash. It'll take you about 12 minutes total. And they'd really add some class to your table.

In a formal setting, the steak knife goes just to the right of the plate, the closest piece to the plate on the right, with the edge facing toward the plate. In a less formal setting, it could, I suppose, go across the top of the plate with the edge facing toward the chair and the handle to the right).
 
Originally posted by Gollnick
The "Steak Knife" has long been a part of formal dinner settings. <snip>
In a formal setting, the steak knife goes just to the right of the plate, the closest piece to the plate on the right, with the edge facing toward the plate. In a less formal setting, it could, I suppose, go across the top of the plate with the edge facing toward the chair and the handle to the right).
Click to expand...

Many thanks for the info on steak knives.

Normally at restaurants the dull table knife is removed and a "steak knife" is substituted if one orders steak (much like in English restaurants where if fish were ordered there would be a substitution of a "fish knife" - an even duller almost spatula like knife)
- unless at a restaurant specializing in steak, in which case the "Steak knife" is the knife in the place setting.

The usual accepted cutlery layout is to place the items in the order of use going from outside in - so if there was a fruit dessert course and a fruit knife was provided, that knife would be innermost with the "steak knife" outside of it since the steak course would be earlier. The exception would be British where the dessert course cutlery would be place horizontally above the plate. Of course in Brit dinning there may well be a cheese course too in which case there would be a very dull cheese (spreading) knife too innermost in the layout.:rolleyes: :D :D
 
Back 20 years ago when we bought our tableware you could get Oneida steak knives that went with your table settings. I don't see things like that on their website. What we use for everyday use are all-metal Carvel Hall steak knives. I'm not crazy about the styles, but they work well in the dishwasher. The steel is OK for table use, it is probably 420 stainless. I don't want RC60 hard alloys used on the family plates. I prefer the knives to get dull rather than the plates to get scratched. It is easy to sharpen the blades. You don't need shaving sharp knives for cooked foods at the table.

http://www.crisfield.com/carvelhall/cutlery.htm
 
Normally at restaurants the dull table knife is removed and a "steak knife" is substituted if one orders steak (much like in English restaurants where if fish were ordered there would be a substitution of a "fish knife" - an even duller almost spatula like knife) - unless at a restaurant specializing in steak, in which case the "Steak knife" is the knife in the place setting.
Click to expand...


Restaurants have a problem in that they don't know what you'll order ahead of time. So, specialized items such as steak knives, fish knives, lobster or crab impliments, etc., so they have to add or remove pieces after you order. Some also do the annoying thing of adding or removing pieces mid-course... very tacky. But, if the meal is pre-planned, then the table should be set appropriately ahead of time.


The usual accepted cutlery layout is to place the items in the order of use going from outside in
Click to expand...

That is the principle, yes. So, for knives, for example, we might have a salad knife for the salad, a dinner knife for the main course, and a fruit knife for the desert. They would be placed with the salad knife outer-most and the desert knife inner-most. But, for some reason (and I'm sure it goes back in history to something), when the main course is big meat and a steak knife is called for, the placement changes. In fact, the dinner knife would not go away since it's still be used to cut the side dishes if necessary. So, from outter- to inner-most, it would go salad knife, dinner knife, fruit knife, steak knife. A bread/butter knife would normally be added either across the top of the plate or across the top of the bread plate.
 
Originally posted by Gollnick
But, for some reason (and I'm sure it goes back in history to something), when the main course is big meat and a steak knife is called for, the placement changes. In fact, the dinner knife would not go away since it's still be used to cut the side dishes if necessary.
Click to expand...

Thanks again for the info.

You got me so intrigued that I did a search on formal place settings for cutlery and found these:

http://www.canoe.ca/HGDecoration0202/01_entertaining-can.html
QUOTE:
"People seem to get really confused about what goes where. The rule is: set the cutlery and glasses in the order they will be used, working from the outside of the place-setting in - the only exception is that the dinner knife always sits to the right of the dinner plate."
UNQUOTE

and

http://www.askmen.com/money/successful/success6.html
QUOTE
You have probably faced a situation where you see an arsenal of cutlery and don't know how to use it. You should only receive as much silverware as you need. They will be arranged in precisely the right order. A simple tip is to watch people around you, and let them make the first move. The silverware will also be used in proper order, as the meal progresses. A little rule of thumb is to start off with the outer utensils and gradually use the utensils in the direction towards your plate.
UNQUOTE
but they go on to add:
QUOTE
Meat
The innermost fork and knife are provided for the meat course of the meal. If you order a steak or filet mignon, a sharper knife is usually added to the setting.
UNQUOTE

The British point of view:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/classic/A558380
 
In case any of you are wondering where I get off knowing this, my sainted mother collected silverware. It was not unusual in our family to sit down for family dinner and find fifteen pieces waiting for you... and we were expected to know what each one was for.
 
I thought I was being "clever" using a serrated Utility (kitchen) knife as a budget steak knife - but let me test your observation:

Victorinox sell their Rosewood handled Steak knife:
http://swissarmy.com/webstore/moreinfo.cfm?product_id=1721&category=78
40003_l.jpg

steak knife
size:4.75 inch
rosewood handle
wavy edge
#40003

and now -
Victorinox Utility knife
http://swissarmy.com/webstore/moreinfo.cfm?product_id=1739&category=77
40003_l.jpg

utility knife
size:4.75 inch
rosewood handle
wavy edge
#40003

Don' they look strikingly similar?
- look at the model #
- identical at #40003
- so it's the same knife sold under two different names
 
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