Sharpen a Crooked River?

O

OldMarineVet

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Aug 2, 2014
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Just bought a Crooked River and I'm really impressed.

My experience sharpening knives had been limited mostly to my EDC, SOG Trident. Appreciated the feedback received in a previous post that the following "sharpening system" could be used with my Griptilian 551-1 with a CPM-20CV straight blade. Just getting started sharpening premium steel blades. Can this also be used with the Crooked River with a CPM-S30V straight blade?:

1) What is the factory (or recommended) edge angle?
2) I normally use Arkansas stones or Lansky Folding Tapered Diamond Sharpening Rod. Can both of these be used?
3) I have a "30" leather stroup. Can that be used to touch up this knife? If not, can any leather stroup be used to sharpen this knife?

Any help greatly appreciated. Thank you
 
1 - factory edge angle will vary depending on who sharpened it that day at the benchmade factory, sometimes you're lucky and you get and even angle on both sides, mine came at a little under 20 degrees per side, almost perfect on both sides. In day to day life i profile all my blades at 20 degrees per side and then just keep them sharp for years on a spyderco sharpmaker and strop. Easiest combination for ease of sharpening and not wasting steel.

2 - it all depends on how experienced you are in sharpening, how consistent you can hold the edge angle by hand. Easiest way is to use a guided system (KME, wicked edge, edge pro) to set profile degrees then just keep sharp with touchups. Just make sure you hit the apex, use a sharpie to see where you're hitting the edge.

3 - any strop can work, leather, cardboard even, loaded/unloaded strops. There's no one way to sharpen knives, all just down to experience and practice.

Cheers
 
Great advice, Mick. Greatly appreciated.

I'm not that "consistent holding the edge angle by hand" with the Arkansas stones. So I've not used them with my Benchmade knives' premium steel. Also, no need yet. Coincidently, as that time approaches, I've been considering a "Spyderco Tri-Angle Sharpmaker Knife Sharpener 204MF." Thank you for mentioning it! I'm also looking at a "Smith's 50364 Pocket Pal X2 Sharpener & Survival Tool" for immediate touch ups.

I think I may be making too big a deal about concerns sharpening "premium" steel. Have read some of those steels can be challenging to sharpen (sticky?) It sounds like I could use the Spyderco Sharpmaker, leather strop, and Smith Pocket Pal on my Benchmade knives: Griptilian 551 (154CM), Griptillian 551-1 (CPM-20CV) and Crooked River (CPM-S30V )

Sound ok? Thanks again for the help.
 
My advice; throw one tool at a time on your blades. A good companion is a strop, which by itself can keep a knife cutting, but with the main tools in mind, find one system and settle on it. At least get to know each system by learning how they work. Just having that strop can make a big difference in between. On the Sharpmaker, take advantage of the 'Sharpie' trick; (coat the edge and if you work the right angle you'll see how you're doing) and consider getting the diamond stones, which can make your sessions go by faster.

...and the best advice I can offer? Practice with cheaper knives before working on your Benchmades. ;)
 
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Appreciate that advice. I'll practice with the Sharpmaker/Sharpie using my cheaper knives and hold off on the Smith Pocket Pal for now. Touchups with leather strop strap are working with Griptilian 551 and Griptillian 551-1 so no hurry for the Benchmades. But, I'll start using a small paddle leather strop for immediate touch ups. I'll only use the leather strop strap and then paddle on the Crooked River for now, when needed. Thank you.
 
OldMarineVet said:
Great advice, Mick. Greatly appreciated.

I'm not that "consistent holding the edge angle by hand" with the Arkansas stones. So I've not used them with my Benchmade knives' premium steel. Also, no need yet. Coincidently, as that time approaches, I've been considering a "Spyderco Tri-Angle Sharpmaker Knife Sharpener 204MF." Thank you for mentioning it! I'm also looking at a "Smith's 50364 Pocket Pal X2 Sharpener & Survival Tool" for immediate touch ups.

I think I may be making too big a deal about concerns sharpening "premium" steel. Have read some of those steels can be challenging to sharpen (sticky?) It sounds like I could use the Spyderco Sharpmaker, leather strop, and Smith Pocket Pal on my Benchmade knives: Griptilian 551 (154CM), Griptillian 551-1 (CPM-20CV) and Crooked River (CPM-S30V )

Sound ok? Thanks again for the help.
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No worries at all. Not sure how experienced you are with sharpening and angles so apologies if i sound patronizing or if you know all this already. But the Spyderco Sharpmaker is one of the best tools you can have in terms of keeping a knife sharp without wasting steel. They are NOT good for re-profiling, that requires too much steel to be removed and the sharpmaker is simply not designed for that. The absolute number 1 thing to remember with the sharpmaker is the angles and the apex. If your knives have an edge of 20 degrees or less (sharpmaker has preset angles of either 20 or 15) you will be able to touch up easily because the apex will hit the stones and not the shoulder of the edge. If your angle is greater than 20 degrees you will hit the shoulder unless you tilt the knife and keep it steady so the apex then hits the edge. That's why its always best to use a sharpie on the edge when you're learning so you can see which part of the edge you're touching. I drew a quick picture for you in paintbrush to show you in case you're not familiar with the angles/apex stuff.
10z71n5.jpg
 
Not patronizing at all. The concept of shoulder, apex, and edge angle is new to me. Thanks much for providing the picture.

The Sharpmaker tutorial talks about many manufacturers sharpening knifes to a 50 or 25 degrees edge angle (like the knife on right?) If so, they recommend "back beveling" the edge with the 30 degree slots (thins out edge to 15 degrees?) and then sharpen the bottom of that with 40 degree slot (transitions 15 degrees to 20 degrees edge?) Then just continuously use the 40 degree slots to sharpen the edge to 20 degrees.

But continuous 20 degree sharpening will work the 20 degree edge up the blade which will eventually become "too fat" causing resistance cutting things. Would that be the case where the shoulder would start hitting the stones? So the blade should be thinned out again with 30 degree slots, thinning out the edge to 15 degrees and then use the 40 degree slots to sharpen the edge to 20 degrees again.

Does that make sense? Now, if I knew the edge angle of the Griptilian 551, Griptillian 551-1, and Crooked River was close to 20 degrees, I'd think I'd just start with the 40 degree slots and sharpen the edge angle to 20 degrees from the beginning using the Sharpie as a guide.
 
No probs, when people talk about degrees they're usually meaning inclusive, so a knife at 40 degrees will be 20 per side (usually). In general for a folding knife you wouldn't want to have an edge any greater than 25 degrees per side as it would hinder your cutting ability. 20 per side is a good all around folding knife angle (in my personal experience). With "back bevelling" and "thinning out the edge" its basically saying re-profiling, so using a sharpening system to remove steel to change the primary cutting edge (the main V shaped grind you cut with( so it's thinner. Another very important concept you need to be familiar with is the micro-bevel. This is basically what you are putting in play when you use a spyderco sharpmaker. Even if your edges are exactly 20 degrees per side like the spyderco sharpmaker rod angles, you will still be putting a slight micro-bevel on to hit those apexes, because you dont want to be shaving a full layer of the edge grind off just to hit the very tip, so you ever so slightly tilt the knife so it's hitting the edge at a slightly wider angle. So its like putting a 22 degree micro edge on the existing 20 degree edge. I will draw another picture below zoomed in to exaggerate the concept. If you dont want to have to tilt the blade at all, you can put a 18 degree angle on the knife and then just keep it dead straight on the stones as the apex will naturally hit the stone because the angle is lower.
309ivia.jpg


what it looks like when hitting sharpmaker stones:
o77wjd.jpg
 
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Wow. Great explanation, Mick. And with pictures! Now I have a better understanding of re-profiling: 'back bevelling" and "thinning out the edge" its basically saying re-profiling' Thank you very much.

So, when the Sharpmaker arrives I'll sharpen a cheap knife:

1) color the apexes with Sharpie
2) use flat side of rods in 40 degree slot to sharpen edge 20 degrees each side
3) observe the coloring on the apexes to understand edge's relationship to the apexes and the back bevels
4) continue sharpening based on that observation.

Anxious to do this when Sharpmaker arrives. Thanks, again.
 
Mick, I received my Sharpmaker last weekend and my son-in-law and I went right to work.

We started with a SOG Trident he had sharpened more on one side than the other (minimal edge on one side.) We had to do the 15 degree back beveling and then the 20 degree edge you described above. First time each of us used the Sharpie. 15 degree back beveling left the ink on the bottom and 20 degree edge left the ink on the top. Made sense. I will use a Sharpie from now on. Then we were able to sharpen 3 other old SOG's relatively quickly. 2 of them had serrated blades which I normally sharpened with the Lansky Folding Tapered Diamond Sharpening Rod. Much faster and greater uniformity across the serrations with Sharpmaker. Then a set of steak knives that I previously had some trouble sharpening with the Arkansas Stones.

I'll sharpen some "medium" cost blades next and then Benchmade knives after that. Should work fine. Sharpmaker is great. Thanks again for yours and everybody else's help on this thread.
 
OldMarineVet said:
Mick, I received my Sharpmaker last weekend and my son-in-law and I went right to work.

We started with a SOG Trident he had sharpened more on one side than the other (minimal edge on one side.) We had to do the 15 degree back beveling and then the 20 degree edge you described above. First time each of us used the Sharpie. 15 degree back beveling left the ink on the bottom and 20 degree edge left the ink on the top. Made sense. I will use a Sharpie from now on. Then we were able to sharpen 3 other old SOG's relatively quickly. 2 of them had serrated blades which I normally sharpened with the Lansky Folding Tapered Diamond Sharpening Rod. Much faster and greater uniformity across the serrations with Sharpmaker. Then a set of steak knives that I previously had some trouble sharpening with the Arkansas Stones.

I'll sharpen some "medium" cost blades next and then Benchmade knives after that. Should work fine. Sharpmaker is great. Thanks again for yours and everybody else's help on this thread.
Click to expand...

Hi mate, glad to here it's working out for you, once you master the back beveling and the micro bevel for touch ups you'll never look back. You wont waste steel and you'll be able to keep it sharp with minimal effort for years until needing to adjust that main bevel again. Another tip is always keep the pressure light, especially towards the end when you're alternating and trying to break that micro bur off, a quick strop on anything like cardboard or a real strop will help with that anyways, but a light touch to finish off really helps get that screaming sharp feel. If you run into any issues or have any questions just shoot me a PM, happy to help with anything i can. Cheers
 
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