Sharpener for Moras

[Eager]

Just received two KJ Eriksson moras and a Helle Fjelkniven from Ragnar today. I'm very impressed and happy. I'm especially impressed with the KJ Eriksson #710. I't rocks and only $10! I'll be ordering more. One questions though. My only sharpening equipment is a Lansky system. Works good for me on other knives. But, reading Ragnar's intructions for sharping Scandanavian knives says to use a flat stone, like a diamond hone. Should I get and use a flat stone? I looked at diamond hones today. I've heard DMTs are good, but locally I saw EZ-lap and Smiths. What are these like? Looking for recommendations. What would happen if I used the Lansky? What about a Sharpmaker? I'm think of one of those anyway.

 

[ichor]

I've wondered about this too. I have several Scandinavian type knives on the way and am wondering what I'll think about sharpening on a Sharpmaker when I get a good look at them.

John in Boise

 

[MelancholyMutt]

Traditionalists tend to like flat stones.

The Lansky and Sharpmaker are fine. I think what Ragnar wants you to avoid are those hand held tungten carbine sharpeners you drag over the edge of the knife. Those sharpeners are horrible and do nothing to bring out the quality of Scandanavian knives. I'm not much of a fan of cheap mechanical grinders either.

 

[Blues]

I generally use ceramic bench stones, Spyderco Sharpmaker hones freehand, or one of Ragnar's "Viking Whetstones". I'll oftentimes finish by stropping on leather or leather charged with chromium oxide.

Scandinavian bevels are the easiest to maintain since you just put the entire bevel flat to the hone and sharpen. Very easy to maintain a wickedly sharp edge.

I haven't had to use any of my diamond hones on these yet, but then I haven't had to do serious edge repair.

 

[rev_jch]

using an agressive sharpener will ruin the knife. The blades are laminated, hard steel edge sandwiched between tow pieces of soft steel. why not strop the blades?? it will save on wear and put a nice razor polished edge on!!!

 

[ichor]

Originally posted by rev_jch
using an agressive sharpener will ruin the knife. The blades are laminated, hard steel edge sandwiched between tow pieces of soft steel. why not strop the blades?? it will save on wear and put a nice razor polished edge on!!!

I think that's a bit of an overgeneralization. Only certain makes and models are laminated. They come in laminated carbon, laminated stainless, and unlaminated carbon and stainless.

John in Boise

 

[Cliff Stamp]

Eager :

What would happen if I used the Lansky? What about a Sharpmaker? I'm think of one of those anyway.

You would put a secondary edge bevel on the knife and significantly reduce the cutting ability while greatly raising the edge durability. This will happen to a greater extent each time you sharpen. If however you use a flat stone on the entire bevel as suggested you will maintain the NIB profile and the performance will be stable for quite some time.

Can't you just take the hones off the Lansky and use them as regular benchstones?

-Cliff

 

[Dan]

Check out www.helleknife.com . Click on "FAQ'S". Bob does a good job explaining how he sharpens his Scandinavian knives. I own several Scandinavian grind knives that I sharpen with this method and it works for me. Although I touch up (not sharpen) the knife's edge with
ceramic rods when sharpening is not necessary. No sense in removing metal when all is needed is to realign the cutting edge.

The most important thing with a Scandinavian ground knife in order to maintain ease of sharpening, especially in the field or outback, is to maintain the entire grind during sharpening. I own and use several sharpening jigs but never use them with my Scandinavian knives. In my experience the flat stones, be they natural or diamond, keep things easy and efficient. Even my young son can put a razor edge on his Scandinavian Scout Knife with a flat diamond stone. That speaks for itself

 

[Eager]

What's wrong about putting a secondary bevel on it with the Lansky? Other than maybe it looking weird. With a $10 knife, I only care about function. The Lansky is capable of some adjustment of angle such that a relatively low angle (as low as 17 degrees relative to a plane through the center of the blade) can be put on as a secondary edge. Even though it may not quite be as low as the original grind angle, wouldn't this still cut efficiently? Anyone know about what the angle is on the Scandinavian grind? I really don't know the answer here. If there's a reason I should use a flat hone then that's fine. I just want to understand. My preference for the diamond hone is because they resist "hollowing out" as well as would cut faster, which might be important since I never have much time and due to the large grind area of the Mora there might be a large amount of material to remove. If it's better done with a flat hone, which diamond is recommened? DMT? EZE-Lap, Smith? What configuration of hone?

 

[Cliff Stamp]

Eager :

What's wrong about putting a secondary bevel ...

There is nothing wrong with it, just that these are knives optomized for cutting, and the secondary bevel will trade cutting ability for durability. It will also thicken rapidly in time and increase this tradeoff where as sharpening the primary grind directly preserves the geometry.

What you can do is what Jeff suggested which is to use a secondary bevel for touchups and hone the primary bevel on a regular basis to preserve the cross section and thus keep the cutting ability from being too heavily reduced.

Anyone know about what the angle is on the Scandinavian grind?

They are usually quite low, ~10 degrees per side. It isn't hard to calculate, how thick is the knife and how high is the grind?

.. due to the large grind area of the Mora there might be a large amount of material to remove

The only way this would be necessary would be if the edge was visible damaged, if you expect this kind of cutting then a secondary edge bevel would in fact be preferred due to the speed of sharpening.

DMT hones are directly better than Ez-Lap, as for configuration, even a small folding one would be enough, the fine/x-fine for example.

-Cliff

 

[Blues]

Eager,

Don't make this harder on yourself than it has to be. Like most of us have been saying, Scandinavian grinds are easy to maintain and you'll find that most any of the hones will work.

If I was to use a Lansky or Gatco I'd just use the stone without the rod attached, it's that simple. With the DMT Diamond or Spyderco ceramic bench stones (or Sharpmaker rods) it's the same process. Just keep it flat on the bevel and work both sides of the blade. You'll keep a supremely sharp edge this way and it's easier than double beveling.

The advantage of the double bevel is that the edge would be more strongly supported but you'd sacrifice cutting efficiency. Not a problem if you don't care.

As for diamond hones, personally I like the DMT's.

 

[Eager]

They are usually quite low, ~10 degrees per side.

This is something I didn't know. Wouldn't this mean that Scandinavian knives wouldn't make good "beaters" e.g. for yard work where eposure to sand and other edge damaging effects is frequent. I guess if I did experience such frequent edge wear (by using the $10 model #710 as a yard or shop beater) I could always put the secondary edge of higher angle on it. I think I'm learning something here. I think what I should do is this: Maintain the Scandi grind of at least some knives as is and care for them as "slicers". Use something else (perhaps a different $10 Mora with secondary bevel) as a "yard or shop beater". With this behind me, I can now justify the need for a DMT duo-sided hone. Say, the course/fine model.

 

[Cliff Stamp]

Eager :

[low edge angle]

Wouldn't this mean that Scandinavian knives wouldn't make good "beaters" e.g. for yard work where eposure to sand and other edge damaging effects is frequent.

Depends on your perspective, James Mattis used to recommend them for such use because he had models that were so cheap (~$5), that you could even afford not to sharpen them, just replace them. But yes, the lack of a secondary bevel does mean that they will get damaged *far* easier than traditional western knives with ~22 degree edges.

I think what I should do is this: Maintain the Scandi grind of at least some knives as is and care for them as "slicers". Use something else (perhaps a different $10 Mora with secondary bevel) as a "yard or shop beater".

Sounds like a solid plan to me.

-Cliff

 

[ExamonLyf]

Good thread..., and yeah, I like the DMT stones better also.., and wouldn't even consider the double bevel on that type knife. Doesn't make sense to me....


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