Sharpener for super steels?

T

Tyronethepro

Joined
Oct 25, 2010
Messages
798
Hey all, I haven't found any threads really addressing my question yet, so I look to you for guidance. My knives with super steels won't take an edge anymore, I used to use a Smith's Diamond kit with 2 stones, but even though it touches my Aus-8, 8CR, 3CR, 12C26, ETC blades, it won't do anything to the super steels? I'm on budget constraints, so $70 or so would be the max I could go, but I'd like a decent sharpener, preferably guided. What would touch the super steels? My ceramics, diamonds, nothing touches them anymore. They're all 154CM from Benchmade and ATS-34 from Benchmade.
 
if the diamonds are clogged they wont cut the steel fines get imbedded in the spaces between the diamonds. try scrubbing with a brush and comet cleanser, ajax or other abrasive. I make knives use mine often so I clean them at least one a week during busy season. if you want one good all purpose diamond look at the dmt 600. its my go to for quick touchups in the field or a customer in a hurry.
 
Yep, diamonds will cut any steel. Any.

We need more info, so let's start with some basics ...

"Won't do anything to the super steels?" - specifically, how do you know?

Is there no slurry being left on the stones?

Do you use a Sharpie to mark the edge to ensure you are sharpening the edge and at the correct angle?

What grit are you using? If 'Fine' grits seem to be doing nothing, what happens when you use a more 'Coarse' grit?


Not to offend, but having years of Customer Service experience, you'd be surprised how many times "Is it plugged in?" is answered "uh ... No".
 
No offense taken Travis
It simply won't sharpen the knives anymore, I've tried wiping them down with a fine nylon brush and comet. It it sharpening at the correct angle (I hope) since it is a guided system, It has a Coarse and Fine stone. I use the coarse first to try and get my blade back to 15 degrees, then I use the fine. But no matter how much I run the stones over the blade, they never get sharp, like they used to. Still won't push cut paper, just crushes the paper. Maybe the stones are worn out?
 
Tyronethepro said:
No offense taken Travis
It simply won't sharpen the knives anymore, I've tried wiping them down with a fine nylon brush and comet. It it sharpening at the correct angle (I hope) since it is a guided system, It has a Coarse and Fine stone. I use the coarse first to try and get my blade back to 15 degrees, then I use the fine. But no matter how much I run the stones over the blade, they never get sharp, like they used to. Still won't push cut paper, just crushes the paper. Maybe the stones are worn out?
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I had that same problem with a DMT Aligner before. Turns out I was sharpening at more and more obtuse angle. By the time I got an edge pro, the angle on the knives that I sharpened a lot on the aligner were almost at 60° inclusive.
 
the 600 grit dmt will last you a long time I like it better than smiths, learn to feel the bevel and use a flat stone, if you place the knife on a flat surface you can feel the point where the bevel seems to fit. plain and simple learn in the old way you need a stone and a knife no extra parts to use. I can sharpen the avg. knife before you can assemble the new fangled high dollar devices. by average I mean one that was used as a knife and not abused as a chisel, screwdriver or otherwise. I normally use three stone progression 300, 600 and 1200 all dmt and have had them several yrs. if it is way out then stones are out and it sees the bader or kmg for a regrind. 1200 is about as far as needed on a knife,a razor needs more but a knife seems to hold a better edge around 1200.
 
Tyronethepro said:
No offense taken Travis
It simply won't sharpen the knives anymore, I've tried wiping them down with a fine nylon brush and comet. It it sharpening at the correct angle (I hope) since it is a guided system, It has a Coarse and Fine stone. I use the coarse first to try and get my blade back to 15 degrees, then I use the fine. But no matter how much I run the stones over the blade, they never get sharp, like they used to. Still won't push cut paper, just crushes the paper. Maybe the stones are worn out?
Click to expand...

Don't rely on the guide system to tell you if you are sharpening, it doesn't know.

Use a sharpie, preferably red or blue or something distinct, and 'paint' the edge from shoulder to apex on each side. Now clamp the blade as you did before, and make a pass along each side using the fine hone and normal pressure. Look at the edge - where is it still painted? If paint remains at the apex, you can either continue grinding away the steel behind it until you achieve that angle all the way to the apex, or you can raise the angle so as to grind to the apex more quickly.

How much pressure do you use? When you last cleaned, did you note that it was actually getting clean? (I.e. use a white tissue/towel to dry the hone and wipe off remaining steel dust) I scrub my hones with soap and an old toothbrush whenever i feel them skating off the blade. If they're not cutting, they're not sharpening.
 
Atoma Plates , more expensive but well worth the cost. If you want a guided system consider the edge pro with Atoma Plates.
 
Many years ago I picked up a coarse and medium Smith's diamond stones to use on my BM knives with 154cm and a Buck in ATS-34 because my Arkansas stones could barely touch 'em. The Smith's, in good shape, should be easily able to carve those steels. Also, a cheap silicon carbide stone will manhandle those steels and put them in reach of just about any finishing stone you could care to use, even an Arkansas - as long as no bevel setting is needed.

The Smith's are likely loaded up, or many of the diamonds have been plowed loose.
 
chiral.grolim said:
Don't rely on the guide system to tell you if you are sharpening, it doesn't know.

Use a sharpie, preferably red or blue or something distinct, and 'paint' the edge from shoulder to apex on each side. Now clamp the blade as you did before, and make a pass along each side using the fine hone and normal pressure. Look at the edge - where is it still painted? If paint remains at the apex, you can either continue grinding away the steel behind it until you achieve that angle all the way to the apex, or you can raise the angle so as to grind to the apex more quickly.

How much pressure do you use? When you last cleaned, did you note that it was actually getting clean? (I.e. use a white tissue/towel to dry the hone and wipe off remaining steel dust) I scrub my hones with soap and an old toothbrush whenever i feel them skating off the blade. If they're not cutting, they're not sharpening.
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I did notice it getting cleaner, but it never got so clean as to where the cloth came off spotless. I put what I would say is the average amount of pressure on, I set the stone on and press slightly, probably only about 2lbs of pressure or so. I picked up a smiths today with the carbide V, Fine flat stone, and ceramic rods, I'm going to try the trick with the sharpie and see where it gets me.

HeavyHanded said:
Many years ago I picked up a coarse and medium Smith's diamond stones to use on my BM knives with 154cm and a Buck in ATS-34 because my Arkansas stones could barely touch 'em. The Smith's, in good shape, should be easily able to carve those steels. Also, a cheap silicon carbide stone will manhandle those steels and put them in reach of just about any finishing stone you could care to use, even an Arkansas - as long as no bevel setting is needed.

The Smith's are likely loaded up, or many of the diamonds have been plowed loose.
Click to expand...
I compared my old fine stone to the one I got today, it feels almost perfectly smooth, so I'd say the diamonds are plowed loose, because I'ts been cleaned. I have a new smith's sharpener with the carbide, fine flat stone and 2 ceramic rods (much like a sharpmaker) that i picked up today, and I also have an Extra fine DMT for touch ups in field. I bought a new cheapo knife that I dulled the blade on and tested it out, back to shaving sharp on the Smith's.

I figured out I need a re-profile on both of my Griptilians, exactly like that link Calc posted, I ran out of bevel, but my 890 can still be saved on the fine stone.
 
Please don't use the carbide sharpener, I've heard many reports they are terrible for your knife ( but I could be wrong, if I am someone correct me ). The stone and the ceramics are fine though.
 
Ballon Corp said:
Please don't use the carbide sharpener, I've heard many reports they are terrible for your knife ( but I could be wrong, if I am someone correct me ). The stone and the ceramics are fine though.
Click to expand...

The carbide V blades function like a lathe, they can shave (gouge) off the shoulders of a VERY dull edge, which can be good. But this takes some pressure, and as the edge gets thinner, the V can pinch and tear the edge, compromising its integrity. Grinding the bevel on an abrasive surface is generally less traumatic for the edge, depending on the grit, and can be used to bring the edge to a very fine apex using less pressure that reduces the risk of compromising its integrity.
 
Ballon Corp said:
Please don't use the carbide sharpener, I've heard many reports they are terrible for your knife ( but I could be wrong, if I am someone correct me ). The stone and the ceramics are fine though.
Click to expand...


While not my first choice, there is a great deal that can be done to improve on these, provided they can be disassembled for tweaks. Off the shelf, most are liable to be as you say - terrible for your knife.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...micrographs)?highlight=dollar+carbide+scraper

Fred Rowe's ERU incorporates these principles and then some, plus is adjustable for angle. Not as versatile as a benchstone or set of stones etc, but a good choice for a simple one step sharpener.
 
for initial re-profiling i use a two-sided carborundum (less than $2.00) my problem is going to finer grit after that. i usually just go down to ace hardware and buy 8 progressions of sandpaper starting from 800, going to 2,500.
 
Don't forget, if you put too much pressure on your diamond stones, you can rip the diamonds from the plate, there by rendering it useless.
 
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