Sharpener/Strop question

[shandrydan1]

I have been using the rods on a Smith's 3 in 1 sharpener to do some touch ups to my knives for a while now and want to move up and really learn to sharpen and eventually move to free handing. I have been reading up on all of the guided systems and have settled on getting a DMT Magna Guide system to help me get started. I also plan on either picking up a stop or making one myself.

My biggest question would be how will this combo be for recurve blades? I have a ZT0350 and a few other Kershaw recurves I would be sharpening with this.

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

So far as I know, there's no available Dia-Fold hone (as would be used with the Magna-Guide) for recurves. There was a curved hone dedicated for use with the Aligner kit, but there seems to be some question as to whether it's available now (might be discontinued). If you can still find one, along with the Aligner guide rod, that might suffice as a supplement to the other kit. Even then, being that they use different guide rod setups, it may not be a perfect match (angle-wise) between the two. Overall, I like the Magna-Guide setup, and I use it pretty regularly. I'd still recommend it highly, for the vast majority of your sharpening needs. But for recurves, the flat and relatively wide Dia-Folds won't be ideal.

DMT does make continuous-surface curved hones, but they're not set up for use with the guided systems (and they're pretty pricey, as with most of the DMT continuous surface hones). I think Eze-Lap also makes several curved (elliptical) hones, also designed for free-hand use.

I used a Lansky kit a couple years ago, to reprofile my ZT-0350. Even then, I ended up finishing the recurve free-hand, with the Lansky hones. Those hones are narrower than the DMT hones, and that helped somewhat, fitting into the inside radius of the recurve. But, it was still not a perfect solution. Looking back, if I were to do it over, I think some wet/dry sandpaper wrapped or glued around a cylinder (PVC pipe, dowel, can/jar) is probably the simplest free-hand solution. If you're gearing up for stropping, it's the same technique. Edge-trailing stroke, done with light & easy pressure. This CAN be done with an edge-leading stroke too, same as sharpening on hard hones. But, it's easier to cut the paper that way too, so I'd recommend starting with edge-trailing. Take it slow, and I think you'd be surprised how well it works. Sandpaper is available in a very wide grit range too, so that really increases the versatility of this method for recurves (and any other blade).

 

[shandrydan1]

Ok, so if I were wanting to practice free handing on a recurve some sandpaper/leather on a rounded surface is the way to go for a recurve? As another solution if I wanted to use a system to start while I work on my free hand skills would the Sharpmaker be a better solution for both recurved and non-recurved blades, followed by the strop?

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

Ok, so if I were wanting to practice free handing on a recurve some sandpaper/leather on a rounded surface is the way to go for a recurve? As another solution if I wanted to use a system to start while I work on my free hand skills would the Sharpmaker be a better solution for both recurved and non-recurved blades, followed by the strop?

You don't necessarily need leather on the curved surface, with the sandpaper. That is, UNLESS you also want to convex the edge. Convexing a recurve might overly complicate things, when first starting out. I'd go with just the sandpaper on the hard surface.

A Sharpmaker will work very well as a maintenance sharpener, so long as you don't get too far behind on keeping your edges up. I have one, and like it for this purpose. For touching up, it's very capable of putting shaving edges on blades that aren't too dull to start with. Probably one of the simplest to learn, too. Excellent instructions included with it, including a DVD video. It's not well-suited for reprofiling (not aggressive enough), especially with the standard set. You can get optional diamond 'sleeves' for the standard rods, which work a bit faster. But, even those are relatively fine grit. Trying to reprofile an S30V blade would be an arduous task with those.

 

[shandrydan1]

Let me rephrase what I was saying about the leather on the curved surface. For an example I would get some sandpaper and attach it to some pvc or something. Then take another piece of pvc and attach leather to it for stropping after I used the sandpaper on the pvc. That wouldnt be considered convexing, correct?

So far with the Smiths 3n1 sharpener I have been able to keep fairly good edges on them so I dont think the transition to the Sharpmaker would be too bad. The rods just seem a bit short to me and are only fine on the Smiths.

With recurves in consideration the Sharpmaker seems the better choice right now for versatility on a budget. From what I've read many people use it to keep up their S30v blades. Granted I only have 3 I do want to keep them maintained and sharp. I dont plan on doing any reprofiling any time soon. I want to get down to where I can keep up good, even, consistent edges before I take on that task.

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

Let me rephrase what I was saying about the leather on the curved surface. For an example I would get some sandpaper and attach it to some pvc or something. Then take another piece of pvc and attach leather to it for stropping after I used the sandpaper on the pvc. That wouldnt be considered convexing, correct?

OK. That would do you fine. If you're considering making a strop for recurves, all the better. :thumbup:

So far with the Smiths 3n1 sharpener I have been able to keep fairly good edges on them so I dont think the transition to the Sharpmaker would be too bad. The rods just seem a bit short to me and are only fine on the Smiths.

With recurves in consideration the Sharpmaker seems the better choice right now for versatility on a budget. From what I've read many people use it to keep up their S30v blades. Granted I only have 3 I do want to keep them maintained and sharp. I dont plan on doing any reprofiling any time soon. I want to get down to where I can keep up good, even, consistent edges before I take on that task.

It sounds like you're on a good path. If you're already somewhat comfortable with your Smith's system, getting the hang of the Sharpmaker should be easy. I think you'll like it as a maintenance sharpener.

 

[shandrydan1]

Well looks like I've got some basis down, now I just have to get started. I have several old belts laying around and I think I may just pick up a dowel and some wood for strops and go to it. Is compound really necessary or will just the leather belt work (I can get it, just more curious than anything).

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

Well looks like I've got some basis down, now I just have to get started. I have several old belts laying around and I think I may just pick up a dowel and some wood for strops and go to it. Is compound really necessary or will just the leather belt work (I can get it, just more curious than anything).

I'd at least TRY a compound (or a couple or three). It's amazing how much difference they can make. If I were picking only one for now, I'd get diamond in either 1 or 3 micron (or both), especially for S30V. Might also try a polishing paste, like Simichrome or Flitz. Green compound is popular, but it's effectiveness will be limited due to it's small grit size, unless your edge is already very refined.

 

[shandrydan1]

Awesome, thanks for the info! Its been a big help. There is so much information out there on sharpening tips and technique it almost seems overwhelming.

 

[shandrydan1]

Ok, so I've had something come up before I ordered my Sharpmaker. I found and have been reading on the Work Sharp and watching some videos of it. I have seen people use it on recurve blades but my main concern is that if I understand right it puts a convex edge on the knives it sharpens. Knowing this, are there any real downsides to having convex edges on all of your knives?

Thanks again,
JD

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

Ok, so I've had something come up before I ordered my Sharpmaker. I found and have been reading on the Work Sharp and watching some videos of it. I have seen people use it on recurve blades but my main concern is that if I understand right it puts a convex edge on the knives it sharpens. Knowing this, are there any real downsides to having convex edges on all of your knives?

Thanks again,
JD

The only 'downside' to me, personally, is a convex might be just a little harder to shave with (or whittle hair), if compared to another identical, perfectly V-bevelled blade with otherwise similar geometry. Part of that is in the technique/skill of the sharpener, I'm sure (I'm still working on that, and getting better at it).

Having said that, a convex edge's advantages far outweigh that one disadvantage. It does everything so well, once the shoulders of the bevel are smoothed out. When you think about it, the edge itself is still essentially a 'V' anyway (if executed correctly, without rounding it off). Once the edge has split the surface of the material being cut, it's all about the friction between the blade's bevel and the material. Smoothing out & reducing the shoulders of the bevel really makes a difference. Especially in thicker & tougher material, like heavy cardboard, wood or stiff leather. There's a very noticeable difference in how the blade 'glides' through the material; you can feel it (and even hear it). The other way to reduce that friction is by using a very thin blade (think of a razor/utility/boxcutter knife). But for thicker blades, convexing really steps up the cutting performance. And they're very durable too. I've deliberately convexed the edges on many of my smaller pocketknives, and there's even a significant improvement in how long those edges last.

If you freehand at all, your edges will always end up convexed, at least a little bit. The more your skills improve, the more you can fine-tune the degree of convex, depending upon how you want to use the knife.

 

[shandrydan1]

Well I was mainly worried about eating away too much steel on my better knives by using the Work Sharp for every sharpening. But from my reading and understanding on convex edges, once I get it where I want it sharpness wise, touching it up every couple of days on a strop will keep it maintained for a while before needing the Work Sharp again. Am I correct in my thinking on this?

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

Well I was mainly worried about eating away too much steel on my better knives by using the Work Sharp for every sharpening. But from my reading and understanding on convex edges, once I get it where I want it sharpness wise, touching it up every couple of days on a strop will keep it maintained for a while before needing the Work Sharp again. Am I correct in my thinking on this?

That's a potential downside to relying solely on a powered sharpener. Can chew up a blade fast, especially when not fully accustomed to using it.

The upside is, with a convex, you can also maintain or touch it up simply by 'stropping' it on some wet/dry sandpaper, perhaps on a leather backing (like a bench strop). Very, very easy. And you can select a grit to match your needs, depending upon how much work the edge needs. If stropping doesn't quite do it with my convex blades, I'll first use some 1000 - 2000 grit wet/dry paper. That 'fixes' it, 99% of the time. I don't think I've ever gone below 600/800 grit to restore an edge, once the convex is set.

 

[shandrydan1]

Thanks for all of the info David. It is greatly appreciated. I'm looking at a couple of different setups now but I have a better idea of what I want and how I need to accomplish it.

If I run up on something else I will be sure to check back in.

JD