Sharpeners and Sharpening Systems

J

JWJohnson

Joined
Feb 17, 2016
Messages
5
I am new to the world of high end knives. I recently purchased a Benchmade Nakamura EDC in S90V Steel along with a couple other "Super Steel" knives. I love the knives and although they have a pretty decent edge from the factory (I can shave hair with it), I'd like it to have a nice polished edge that I can cut toilet paper with. (That just sounds weird that I want to cut toilet paper, lol).

Anyway, I had bought the Lansky System with base and wasn't impressed. I got a decent edge but stabilizing the device while sharpening the knife cause me to break concentration more than once and have the stone slip off the blade edge and (I'm pretty sure) damage the edge slightly. Additionally, when I tried to use the 17 degree angle, the stones were scraping the knife holder itself. Keep in mind the knife I was sharpening at that time was a medium to large folding knife I was practicing on. (Lansky boasts that angle is for exact blades...must be one hell of an exact blade). Yes I followed all the instructions that came with it and the guides are perfectly flush with the stone and table. I am just not happy with it.

I decided to drop some serious coin and get an Edge Pro Professional 3 Kit system. It is arriving today. Before I open this thing and realize I pissed more money away, is this a good kit that I can sharpen both my Wustoff kitchen knives as well as my EDC knives? Is there a better way to get and maintain a good hair splitting edge on my knives? Any input is greatly appreciated.
 
Welcome. I'm moving your thread to correct forum. Have fun!

Jason
 
The EP Professional model is one of the most jam up manual hand sharpening systems on the market... with the exception of the Wicked Edge that is ;) I have had both and now have and prefer the Wicked Edge. However, you certainly will be able to maintain all your knives on the EP Pro no problem!
 
razor-edge-knives said:
The EP Professional model is one of the most jam up manual hand sharpening systems on the market... with the exception of the Wicked Edge that is ;) I have had both and now have and prefer the Wicked Edge. However, you certainly will be able to maintain all your knives on the EP Pro no problem!
Click to expand...

Damnit, Josh! Now I am second guessing myself. That Wicked Edge looks like a beast. The Gen 3 Pro looks sturdy as all heck, simple and precise. Since you have both, here are my questions to you.

(1) I noticed in Edge Pro's video, there doesn't seem to be an exact measure of angles. They only mark the most common sharpening angles. Is this true? Does the Wicked edge have exact angle measurements? It sounded like the WE Gen 3 clicked into place with each adjustment.

(2) Next question is in regards to sturdiness. The Edge Pro seems to have a decent base then a little foot at the end of the knife base Versus the WE Gen III which has a big solid Aluminum base. Is there a difference sturdiness between the two? The Wicked Edge looks sturdier based on the pictures. What are your thoughts?

(3) Next is in regards to sharpening the beveled edge of the knife where it tapers near the tip. I noticed with the Edge Pro, you tilt or cock the knife to keep the edge parallel to the knife guide where as the WE swivels to attack the edge. That said, it seems like the Edge Pro would maintain a more exact angle on the knife throughout the entire length of the blade than the Wicked Edge. What are your thoughts regarding this?

(4) Lastly, what other items do you consider makes the Wicked Edge superior to the Edge Pro?

Sorry for all the questions. I am a Mechanical Engineer by trade and I tend to over think things at times.
 
razor-edge-knives said:
The EP Professional model is one of the most jam up manual hand sharpening systems on the market... with the exception of the Wicked Edge that is ;) I have had both and now have and prefer the Wicked Edge. However, you certainly will be able to maintain all your knives on the EP Pro no problem!
Click to expand...

NM on the last post. I just saw where you did a pros/cons on both products. Thanks again, Josh!
 
To sharpen my bowie on the lansky, I hold the knife itself rather than the clamp in one hand and the stone in the other. I stick a piece of duct tape on one end of the stone to prevent stone dinging the blade in case I overshoot. For larger knives scraping the holder isn't a problem as with smaller narrower blades as you have some room to position the blade outwards. Again the emphasis on skill and knowledge of sharpening concepts rather than equipment. The lansky can get you scary sharp edges if you know what you are doing. The Edgepro non clamping system will get you there faster and easier especially on large blades. Congrats and good luck on your purchase.
 
I own and use my Edge Pro all the time, I think you will love it. No matter what sharpening system you choose, they all take some practice to get everything perfect. When you get it right with the edge pro, the results may scare you :) Also worth looking into the Shapton or Chosera stones, they are a very worthy upgrade to the stock boride stones.
 
You will probably think I am just confused and nuts but here is my three cents :


At work when I am in a big stupid hurry, or some body is but I don't see all the fuss . . .
any way I use this kit and get really sharp serviceable edges on anything from a carbide power tool bit to a Stanley box knife blade and drill bits etc.



But
thas not how I like to roll

At home for a pocket knife I can get totally frightening results (as far as shaving curls off a single hair) with these two little stones; a Norton water stone 4000 (the white one) and a Norton water stone 8000. Not to mention TOTAL FREAKING MIRROR FINISH !



But

it takes some time and concentration and some magnification. . . and. . .that's just cutting hair which IS NOT ALL OF THE STORY when it comes to making a cutting edge to cut tougher materials . . . NOT BY A LORRY LOAD !

SO
enter the Edge Pro !
I have the Apex with the Shapton stones and it is plenty. No real need to go with the Professional or I would have in a heart beat. This thing was my main Christmas present this last Xmas so . . . you know . . . spare no expense . . . the sky's the limit. :p :thumbup: (actually SWMBO didn't see it in quite that light and I was lucky to get this Apex but I can fantasize can't I ?).



When it comes to making better edges than I can make with my drawers full of water stones AND with much more useful and EFFECTIVE geometry . . .
well . . .
I am in heaven with the Edge Pro !
I will say it takes some learning, concentration and practice not to mention some time UNSCREWING UP the factory grinds.

But Yah . . . heaven.
I am not saying send back your Professional . . . what the heck more is better right ?
I know the Shapton stones are THEEEEEEE way to go though. Seriously excellent at cutting, not glazing over, remaining flat and my 4000 Shapton is producing some surprisingly mirrored bevels. I felt sure I was going to have to order an 8000 but the supplier was right; 4000 is all you really need. Plus the coarser stones that it came with.
 
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I have had both the EP and the WE. I now use only my WE. More precise angles. Easier repeat sharpenings. Shorter learning curve. Worth the money.
 
Wicked Edge
Click to expand...

Not having one and not having used one who am I to speak
but speak I shall.

FOR ME . . . it SEEMED that the blade vise would limit the shallowness of the angle that I could work with and I am a total shallow edge freak.
Also
I wanted to sharpen small pocket knives and other small edge tools and from other systems that clamp the blade I wound up just polishing the side of the clamp and wishing I could sharpen my smaller knives.

The advantage to the Edge Pro, for me, is that the whole side of the blade is clear and I can go really shallow if I want to. I was confused for a while by the spec sheets thinking I needed the Professional to get to a shallow angle but in practice the Apex does 'er.

I watched vids on the Wicked and considered it and I can see the attraction for larger knives. There seems to have been some other reservations that I had but I can't remember what they were right now. Perhaps the blade slipping in the grip of the vise where as the Edge pro supports the blade right up to the very edge and just the pressure of the stone holds it down and in place. There is a an optional magnet which I am giving a try and it is working well but if you watch the designer of the Edge Pro demonstrate the sharpener he shows how just the light downward force of the stone can hold the knife in place on the sharpener table; no tension needed from the free hand except when flipping the knife.

I go one step further and just sharpen on the pull stroke and not on the push, unless I am really trying to hog off a lot of material so I do support the knife more than really necessary with my free hand but no clamp to get in the way is my way for sure.
 
Wowbagger said:
Not having one and not having used one who am I to speak
but speak I shall.

FOR ME . . . it SEEMED that the blade vise would limit the shallowness of the angle that I could work with and I am a total shallow edge freak.
Also
I wanted to sharpen small pocket knives and other small edge tools and from other systems that clamp the blade I wound up just polishing the side of the clamp and wishing I could sharpen my smaller knives.

The advantage to the Edge Pro, for me, is that the whole side of the blade is clear and I can go really shallow if I want to. I was confused for a while by the spec sheets thinking I needed the Professional to get to a shallow angle but in practice the Apex does 'er.

I watched vids on the Wicked and considered it and I can see the attraction for larger knives. There seems to have been some other reservations that I had but I can't remember what they were right now. Perhaps the blade slipping in the grip of the vise where as the Edge pro supports the blade right up to the very edge and just the pressure of the stone holds it down and in place. There is a an optional magnet which I am giving a try and it is working well but if you watch the designer of the Edge Pro demonstrate the sharpener he shows how just the light downward force of the stone can hold the knife in place on the sharpener table; no tension needed from the free hand except when flipping the knife.

I go one step further and just sharpen on the pull stroke and not on the push, unless I am really trying to hog off a lot of material so I do support the knife more than really necessary with my free hand but no clamp to get in the way is my way for sure.
Click to expand...

Yeah the blade vise is limiting, but there are ways around that somewhat. Small pocket knives are a breeze w/ the Tormek small knife jig on the WEPS =)

[video=youtube;rkMAo2eztpY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkMAo2eztpY[/video]
[video=youtube;LjadFGSSC2c]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjadFGSSC2c[/video]
 
JWJohnson said:
Damnit, Josh! Now I am second guessing myself. That Wicked Edge looks like a beast. The Gen 3 Pro looks sturdy as all heck, simple and precise. Since you have both, here are my questions to you.

(1) I noticed in Edge Pro's video, there doesn't seem to be an exact measure of angles. They only mark the most common sharpening angles. Is this true? Does the Wicked edge have exact angle measurements? It sounded like the WE Gen 3 clicked into place with each adjustment.

(2) Next question is in regards to sturdiness. The Edge Pro seems to have a decent base then a little foot at the end of the knife base Versus the WE Gen III which has a big solid Aluminum base. Is there a difference sturdiness between the two? The Wicked Edge looks sturdier based on the pictures. What are your thoughts?

(3) Next is in regards to sharpening the beveled edge of the knife where it tapers near the tip. I noticed with the Edge Pro, you tilt or cock the knife to keep the edge parallel to the knife guide where as the WE swivels to attack the edge. That said, it seems like the Edge Pro would maintain a more exact angle on the knife throughout the entire length of the blade than the Wicked Edge. What are your thoughts regarding this?

(4) Lastly, what other items do you consider makes the Wicked Edge superior to the Edge Pro?

Sorry for all the questions. I am a Mechanical Engineer by trade and I tend to over think things at times.
Click to expand...

Hey man, may be helpful for a few updates on my opinions I guess! lol

1) If I remember correctly this is true, however, all of us OCD knife sharpeners use Angle Cubes anyway and pay no attention to the marks for the most part ;)

2) I remember when I went to the Wicked Edge I felt that the EP Pro was the better made and sturdier of the two... not that there's anything wrong w/ the WEPS mind you, I have used it almost every day for the past 4 years and no major issues (if I ever have one, I know the Wicked Edge team will take care of me anyway!)

3) No, you can adjust the position to hit almost an exact angle along the entire length or set it to increase the angle at the tip which will make the edge look aesthetically the same from a side view (important to some people) or if you just want a beefier tip. You can't really do this on the EP. Take a look here.

4) A few of the larger points that make it superior imho are
  • The EP made a mess w/ the waterstones... the Wicked Edge is WAY less messy
  • The EP Apex would slide around w/ the two little suction cups on the bottom when they get soaked in water from the waterstones... the EP Pro and WEPS don't have this issue (I have mounted my WEPS to a panavise like suction cup)
  • The WEPS locks the knife in the vise, which I really like. No having to adjust for a full convex grind or flat grinds with each switch of the hand... it's locked in.
  • You can change grind direction or switch from edge leading to edge trailing w/ ease, it's very convenient esp when mirroring if you strop.

Hope this helps.
 
because I have never found even full on full size water stones to be "too messy"

See me here diving in (on an old YouTube)





razor-edge-knives

Tormek small knife jig on the WEPS
Click to expand...

Oh heck yah !
THAT’LL WORK !

The other thing that I was thinking about today is that the WE doesn’t compensate for thickness variation / wear in the stones. The EP does.

Am I full of stuff or what ?

As far as the suction cups sliding around from all the water.
Nah dude, nah.
I have never had that.

How much water are you using anyway ? ! ! ! (see my YouTube above; doesn't take much even for large stones)
ha, ha

I sharpen in the kitchen and take the stone to the sink and rinse it after a knife and then leave it over there to kind of drip off while I use the next finer stone.
etc
by the time I am back to the first stone for the next knife it is pretty drip free.
Nope no sucker probs.
 
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