Sharpeners that Help Set Proper Angle and Reach Entire Bevel?

R

RedLynx

Joined
Aug 5, 2011
Messages
11,445
Hi guys,

I do all of my own sharpening with a two sided DMT diamond stone. It seems to work well for most of my user knives. However, after sending a couple of knives in to a pro here, that I couldn't get sharp, I worry my freehand may not be up to snuff. I think the knives in question were set with an obtuse microbevel from the factory, as I can usually get knives pretty sharp but these (two of the same knife) not so much.

However, I try to set the angle on my knives by "feel" and keep it steady throughout the process. The trouble is, since I need both hands for this I'm also working at maintaining my balance since I don't have my cane hand free anymore (I sharpen at the kitchen counter). I also tend to set my knives at around 20 degrees but it may go as high as 25, this is tough for me to tell just eyeballing it. I worry about that.

I did get some of the guide rails offered by Global Cutlery a couple of years back, but I can't fit them onto most knives (as they manufacture kitchen knives) so they largely have been unhelpful, although it has prompted me to at least try to get better and feeling and maintaining the angle freehand.

I guess what I'm asking is, if I really can't maintain a good angle (and reach the entire bevel which also seems to be an issue), are there any quality (and hopefully affordable) sharpeners that will set and help me maintain the angle, and reach the whole bevel? Of course most pocket sharpeners have too obtuse an angle, but I was wondering if there was a better version of something like that with a more acute angle.

Global makes some kind of sharpener that sets a proper (I think 15 degree) angle and helps to maintain it as you sharpen, and you add water to some kind of reservoir. But as they make kitchen cutlery I've been reluctant to purchase.

About reaching the entire bevel:

Recently I discovered some rust on one of my carbon knives. Soaked it in vinegar and gave it a nice patina. Proceeded to sharpen it up, but only a portion of the bevel became "shiny" again where the patina has rubbed off. This has me worried that even though I'm setting a pretty acute angle (though perhaps not enough) I'm not maintaining it enough to evenly reach the whole bevel.

Of course I want to improve my freehand sharpening, but I also have a few EDCs that are in need of some good touch ups and if I've now discovered I'm not that great, I don't want to keep going with that.

Any suggestions about freehand or good sharpeners would be appreciated.

**Most of the time my knives get very sharp, enough to easily cut what I want, so they work for me. But if I'm really not maintaining the proper angle or getting to the entire bevel I'm really only hurting myself in the long run, and I want to correct that.

Thanks guys.
 
I use DMT stones with a Lansy clamp.Work thro xc to xf then 3000 /6000 diamond tape to polish the edge.
 
RedLynx said:
Hi guys,

I do all of my own sharpening with a two sided DMT diamond stone. It seems to work well for most of my user knives. However, after sending a couple of knives in to a pro here, that I couldn't get sharp, I worry my freehand may not be up to snuff. I think the knives in question were set with an obtuse microbevel from the factory, as I can usually get knives pretty sharp but these (two of the same knife) not so much.

However, I try to set the angle on my knives by "feel" and keep it steady throughout the process. The trouble is, since I need both hands for this I'm also working at maintaining my balance since I don't have my cane hand free anymore (I sharpen at the kitchen counter). I also tend to set my knives at around 20 degrees but it may go as high as 25, this is tough for me to tell just eyeballing it. I worry about that.

I did get some of the guide rails offered by Global Cutlery a couple of years back, but I can't fit them onto most knives (as they manufacture kitchen knives) so they largely have been unhelpful, although it has prompted me to at least try to get better and feeling and maintaining the angle freehand.

I guess what I'm asking is, if I really can't maintain a good angle (and reach the entire bevel which also seems to be an issue), are there any quality (and hopefully affordable) sharpeners that will set and help me maintain the angle, and reach the whole bevel? Of course most pocket sharpeners have too obtuse an angle, but I was wondering if there was a better version of something like that with a more acute angle.

Global makes some kind of sharpener that sets a proper (I think 15 degree) angle and helps to maintain it as you sharpen, and you add water to some kind of reservoir. But as they make kitchen cutlery I've been reluctant to purchase.

About reaching the entire bevel:

Recently I discovered some rust on one of my carbon knives. Soaked it in vinegar and gave it a nice patina. Proceeded to sharpen it up, but only a portion of the bevel became "shiny" again where the patina has rubbed off. This has me worried that even though I'm setting a pretty acute angle (though perhaps not enough) I'm not maintaining it enough to evenly reach the whole bevel.

Of course I want to improve my freehand sharpening, but I also have a few EDCs that are in need of some good touch ups and if I've now discovered I'm not that great, I don't want to keep going with that.

Any suggestions about freehand or good sharpeners would be appreciated.

**Most of the time my knives get very sharp, enough to easily cut what I want, so they work for me. But if I'm really not maintaining the proper angle or getting to the entire bevel I'm really only hurting myself in the long run, and I want to correct that.

Thanks guys.
Click to expand...

I swapped from Freehanding to using the Edge Pro Apex. Had it a couple years, love it. Even do up knives for a Professional Chef friend of mine and the come back with a better edge than the professional sharpening service he "USE" to use. LOL

Here is there Website: http://www.edgeproinc.com/. Several useful videos on their site and a quick search on youtube will bring back plenty as well.

Whatever you decide, if you buy any sort of system, I find you'll find folks that love it and folks that hate it. Just take the time to research what will work best for you and what you hope to do.

Adding an edit here. It aint cheap. but it is not a purchase I regret at all. Even thinking about getting another one because I loan mine out from time to time to friends as once they figured out how well I could sharpen a blade they would start bringing me their knives to sharpen. That got a little old when they would bring them 5-6 at a time so I just taught them how to use the thing and just keep an extra set of stones around and loan them out with the sharpener.
 
Thanks guys so far, I'll check out the clamp and the Apex. Maybe Christmas can help with that.
 
bonzodog said:
I use DMT stones with a Lansy clamp.Work thro xc to xf then 3000 /6000 diamond tape to polish the edge.
Click to expand...

Bonzo I checked out the clamp (I assume you mean just the clamp and not the whole system since you use DMT stones). How do you use the clamp in conjunction with the stones? Just clamp the knife at the proper angle and draw it across the stone as usual? Thanks.
 
I wouldn't give up on the free hand sharpening. You can get amazing results with a gadget, I personally own a wicked edge and it is a great sharpener but nothing compares to having the skill to get a knife razor sharp. Have you tried coloring the bevel with sharpie to find the sharpening angle? even for people with experience it is sometimes hard to get the exact angle, just keep practicing and be patient, hope that helps.
 
Definitely going to keep at it magicblade, the first time I started doing freehand and could get it sharp enough myself, it was great. Thanks brother.

magicblade said:
I wouldn't give up on the free hand sharpening. You can get amazing results with a gadget, I personally own a wicked edge and it is a great sharpener but nothing compares to having the skill to get a knife razor sharp. Have you tried coloring the bevel with sharpie to find the sharpening angle? even for people with experience it is sometimes hard to get the exact angle, just keep practicing and be patient, hope that helps.
Click to expand...
 
I'd go with the Wicked Edge, even though, fully accessorized, it's expensive. You could start with a basic set up, mount it to a homemade base, and add stones and strops and such as you save up money. I don't know any sharpener that will give you a more perfect bevel. The diamond stones cut fast. And strops make it easy to get a super-sharp, refined edge. You can sit down while you use it, so balance shouldn't be a problem. I generally put a 15 dps edge on all my knives. Then, between major resharpening, I can use a cheap Sharpmaker to keep a good edge. I follow the Sharpmaker with a freehand strop.

Another idea would be to try the Onion WorkSharp. It's a power system, but it's cheap and fast and can give pretty good results once you learn how to use it.

I know there are some brilliant freehand sharpeners on the forum whom I respect greatly; but for most of us, a high-quality guided system like Wicked Edge will give much better results.
 
Thanks Twindog,

I'll check these out. You mention the Onion one is powered, can I just plug it in and use it in my kitchen? I don't have a workshop area.

It's not that I'm opposed to a system, it's just I like the idea of taking out a stone, sharpening, and getting back to business. So many systems look great but they feature so many accessories and upgrades and gizmos. I'm a tech savvy guy who likes the latest breakthroughs in tech, and yet for some reason I like to keep my knife tech simple.

Twindog said:
I'd go with the Wicked Edge, even though, fully accessorized, it's expensive. You could start with a basic set up, mount it to a homemade base, and add stones and strops and such as you save up money. I don't know any sharpener that will give you a more perfect bevel. The diamond stones cut fast. And strops make it easy to get a super-sharp, refined edge. You can sit down while you use it, so balance shouldn't be a problem. I generally put a 15 dps edge on all my knives. Then, between major resharpening, I can use a cheap Sharpmaker to keep a good edge. I follow the Sharpmaker with a freehand strop.

Another idea would be to try the Onion WorkSharp. It's a power system, but it's cheap and fast and can give pretty good results once you learn how to use it.

I know there are some brilliant freehand sharpeners on the forum whom I respect greatly; but for most of us, a high-quality guided system like Wicked Edge will give much better results.
Click to expand...
 
I use a Wicked Edge also. I was never really great at freehand sharpening and had mixed results with Lansky, Gatco, etc. The Wicked Edge is virtually dummy proof.

I've never used the Ken Onion Worksharp version, but it has a lot of positive reviews. A lot of people say that you do have to be careful to avoid rounding tips on it.
 
RedLynx said:
Bonzo I checked out the clamp (I assume you mean just the clamp and not the whole system since you use DMT stones). How do you use the clamp in conjunction with the stones? Just clamp the knife at the proper angle and draw it across the stone as usual? Thanks.
Click to expand...

Yes , I use the lansky clamp and mounting base instead of the plastic DMT clamp.Tape the blade to avoid scratching.
 
If your looking to produce perfectly flat edge bevels @ specific angles using a diamond plate you might consider this tool. It's shipped with a set of 9 degree wedges that are made to be used with a diamond plate; followed by the ERU set at a corresponding inclusive angle. The combination produces truly flat edge bevels at any desired angle and they are shaving sharp.

ugY1KN0_3sQveEOv7nftoSkqP5BUQ4I8zhaupDsaLD4=w671-h575-no

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...-in-the-ERU-super-quot-V-quot-field-sharpener

PM me if you have questions, Fred
 
I'll throw out another vote for the Wicked Edge. I have a Pro Pack 1 and it's terrific. The WE knife database (on the WE website) is great for telling people new to the WE where to set the knife to get clean, even bevels. Once the knife is clamped just use a sharpie to make sure you hit the apex of the edge. I write done the placement so repeatability is fast and accurate.

Couple of cautions/pointers:

1. Start with cheap knives to get the hang of it
2. The low grit stones remove A LOT of metal in a hurry so be careful
3. Use the strops to get a hair popping edge
4. If you want mirrored edges, buying auto sandpaper and taping to the 1000 girt stones works great and is cheaper than buying more WE stones. I used 1500, 2000, and 2500 grit sandpaper with great results.

Before the WE I sharpened free hand for years and years. I was good (easily cut hair) but not great. I like to free hand but I like the results I get with the WE a little more.
 
Thanks Fred. Bills make things too tight this month, even at that great price, but it's something I'd likely invest in, when I could.
 
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