sharpening 1095 vs. D2

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Feb 10, 2004
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I've been trying to get my Queen dogleg jack to slice half as good as my 194OT. I use the sandpaper/mousepad method and I've been real pleased at the nice edge I can get on a blade--except the D2. Am I expecting too much from the D2, or do I just need to keep at it? Admittedly, I haven't gone past 600 grit, but from what I've read here (and at some Web sites) I feel that I should be able to get a good slicing edge with 600; but, where the Schrade whispers through a sheet of paper with no effort, my Queen just tears it up.
Any advice?
 
If the Queen is like all of mine, you'll need to reprofile the bevel and make it twice a wide as the factory bevel. You probably have too large a shoulder. Queen's d2 is great, but their factory bevels and edges suck big time.



Thomas Zinn
 
What Zinn1348 said. Queen's bevels are too obtuse for a good slicer and ready resharpening using what most would consider a "normal" angle. Its a shame because the overall geometry of their knives is often great for a slicer, but the Queen edge sometimes just doesn't make it. It takes time to grind down Queen D2, a lot more time than 1095 or say AUS8A, more like hard ATS-34.
 
What others have said. Queen edges are > 40 degrees inclusive (guessing). I take 'em down to 30 and then add a 40 at the very edge.

I get a diamond stone and go on 'autopilot' for a long time.

Nice thing is, once you get the edge thinned out, it very easy to maintain.
 
I'm a freehand sharpener. I've never tried convexing an edge, the mousepad/sandpaper thing, etc. I had a biznitch of a time with Queen's D2 but found a simple solution. Part of it is above, doubling the factory edge bevel (actually I'm not 100% sure that's necessary on a new knife, but the one I had so much trouble with is a whittler that is ground back at least 1/16 from the original profile and thus the blade near the edge is darned thick). The other secret is to use a coarse carborundum stone. My grandfather had a kitchen-knife sharpening stone of carborundum that is about 12" long with a handle on one end. It is NOT the coarsest carborundum I've come across by a longshot, but quite a bit coarser than most arkansas, india, and the norton stones, much less the various ceramic stick sharpeners.

Pretty rapidly, that stone will put a shaving, coarse sawtooth edge on that D2 blade. Takes some work to polish it up on finer stones, but it can be done. The coarse, sawtooth edge isnt a terrific newsprint slicer, but a very useful and sharp edge.

One of the things about D2 that makes it so wear resistant is the presence of a lot of carbides in it. I have come across suggestions that when one tries to get a polished edge like you can get on 1095, 440, 420, etc., the carbides just fall out and keep the surface fairly rough by comparison. This is consistent with my observation that it is very hard to get D2 shiny.

Bottom line, you can get a very nice edge on D2. But it may be futile to try to get a polished edge like you can get fairly easily on more conventional steel.
 
I have a Queen D2 whittler. Admittedly, I don't use it for much anything other than whittling on pine and other soft woods, and haven't had a problem with it yet. I reprofiled it to 20 degrees on coarse-fine DMT diamond laps and then went to a natural blue waterstone (somewhere between 2000-3000 grit) giving it a slight convex bevel (free-hand slop rather than an actual secondary bevel) in the process, and then polished it up on 5000 and 15000 grit ceramic waterstones. Took a light touch on the stones and a bit more work than other steels but I got a mirror finish with a push-cut sharp edge on it. I keep it sharp by hitting the 15000 grit or a smooth strop with .5 micron honing compound whenever it starts to feel like it is loosing its touch.

Maybe D2 requires a lot of light strokes to sharpen (heavy pressure may knock out the carbides instead of sharpening them along with the matrix) and doesn't like having a toothy edge because it lets the carbides catch in whatever you're cutting and they get ripped out?

Who knows? Try a light touch and go to a smooth push-cut edge and see if it works any better for you.
 
A thick edge really doesn't matter for slicing paper. However, my guess is you haven't sharpened it to the edge. As others have said alot of the Queen d2s are fairly thick and d2 does take more work to sharpen than 1095. Keep at it D2 will get very sharp and will hold it very well once its sharp. Spend more time useing coarser paper on it before moving up to 600 grit paper.
 
Thanks for the replies. I can't see how the shoulder could be a problem, though, because I'm going for a convex edge on the blade, so I've already smoothed out the shoulder. Maybe I just need to keep at it...
 
You have probably not sharpened all the way to the edge yet. And go beyond 600 grit, I have used up to 2000 grit on my Queens with very good results. Just make sure you have done as much work as possible with the coarser grits first, the finer grits should be reserved for the final edge refinement. D2 will take a lot more work than 1095.
 
The "shoulder" is not the problem, it is a symptom. The problem is that the factory edge is too obtuse and does not come to a nice sharp apex at the edge. You need to remove a lot of material at a low honing angle to improve the profile and the edge. It is hard to remove a lot of material from D2 since it is very abrasion resistant. If you try and sharpen it using the mouse pad approach you have some risks of ending up with an obtuse edge or a rounded edge. For example if you try and sort of approximate the original bevel but just smooth it out you will tend to end up with a higher final edge angle than you started with. If you try and hone to a lower angle than the original you have to remove a large amount of very hard material. Since you won't seem to make any progress the temptation is to use harder honing pressure. With a compliant backing like a mouse pad you will round the edge if you use too much pressure.

The quick way to fix the problem is to switch from the mousepad to a hard backing and lower the edge angle by honing with high pressure. Once you have a reasonable edge at a lower honing angle you can go back to the mouse pad using gentle honing/stropping pressure to convex the edge.

The slow way to fix the problem is to hone on the mousepad at a very low honing angle using light pressure for a very long time.

With either of the above two methods you will get the job done fastest by using a coarser grade of paper until you basically have a decent slicing edge. Do not procede to a finer grit of paper until you can slice reasonably well. I would suggest something around 80 grit for fixing the edge profile. You may never use that coarse a grit again, but it will sure help for this first time. You could try 100 or 120 grit, but this may try your patience.
 
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