sharpening ambidextrous

awestib

awestib

Joined
Dec 29, 2008
Messages
1,647
Hi guys
I have been sharpening knives on stones and have come to conclusion that something does not make much sense to me. If I use my right hand to sharpen the left side of the blade, I can see the hight of the spine relative to the stone and that gives me quite an accurate estimation of the angle. I think I can tell quite well when I am at an angle of approx. 20 degrees. So I usually do forth and back strokes to establish an edge and then edge leading only, continuous strokes.

However for the right side I flip over the knife in my right hand and now look at the edge, not the spine anymore. So it's quite hard to tell the angle, plus, the movement is awkward!

So I started to use my left hand for the right side, again look at the spine and it seems particularly easy to tell when the angle is similar for both sides so I think I am going to be more accurate. Also, I now use my strop with both hands too, of course edge trailing but the point is that I still see the spine hight on the strop. I use my right hand to pull towards me for the left side of the knife and vise versa.

I just wonder if someone else does it similar since I have not seen any videos on YouTube etc. yet. Just thought I should share this with you! Any thoughts?

Andy
 
I look at it this way, if I use alternating hands I can "teach" the one hand based on how the other works. Whatever the one does well, I can study this and apply it to a mirror image. A lot of folks use just their primary hand for both sides, but I can't get used to this and then there's a different set of mechanics to learn for each side. Whatever works - I alternate hands and use my stone/strops parallel to the edge of my bench.
 
You're not alone. For similar reasons, I've been doing that too. My perspective is slightly different, in that I prefer to see the edge directly, when sharpening or stropping. It's easier for me to see if the edge is making flush contact on the hone. So, I switch hands to keep the edge towards me. I also rely on the 'feel' of the bevel against the hone, by slightly pivoting/rocking the blade up/down, until I see the edge flush and, at the same time, feel the shoulder lay flush on the hone.

My freehand habits have been built around using small(ish) hones and strop blocks that I can hold in one hand, while holding the knife in the other (I don't generally lay the hones on a bench or table). I hold the hone between my thumb at one end, and my middle & ring fingers at the other end. This means my hones & strop blocks are generally about 5" - 6" in length. I curl my index finger underneath the center of the hone, to provide some support. I angle the hone/strop upwards to view it more or less from the end, so the edge is directly toward my line of sight.
 
I do smething similar to that.I hold the stone on my left knee and with the knife in my right hand,eyeballing the distance from the spine to the stone,do ten strokes.Then,still keeping the stone on my left knee,turn knife over while switching to my left hand I do ten strokes that way.I always sharpen heel to tip,like trying to shave a thin layer off my stones,and number of strokes vary.It helps to have a light on,as it will cast a shadow between the knife spine and stone.It really helps me because my eyes are'nt so young anymore.I use Smiths 11" Diamond bench stones for my knee stones.After I use my stones to satisfaction I take Spyderco Sharpmaker rods and hold them between my thumb and middle finger(long hands)and lightly sharpen while switching hands after a predetermined number of strokes.Sometimes I use both the grey and white rods,and sometimes just the medium grey.If I want to really polish the edge I'll add my ultra fine rod to the mix.When that's done I'll do some light stropping with the black stick compound.I know it might sound strange,but it works for me.
 
I hone ambidextrously, BUT: I sharpen with the edge facing me. You say that you can approximate the angle better by looking at the spine. I can feel if I've got a good angle by looking at the edge and how it's touching the stone. I don't understand it the other way around!
 
I sharpen with the spine facing me and ambidextrously, too. I did recently realize that my technique was poor and have started the relearning process, thankfully it's been pretty quick, and I'm making some pretty good edges.
 
I sharpen ambidextrously using an edge trailing stroke.

There are a lot of good videos on YouTube with a wealth of information pertaining to freehand sharpening. Here is a great one from Murray Carter:

[youtube]ozZF2EgnYm0[/youtube]
 
So the blade rides over imperfections in the stone instead of cutting into them. Take sand, for example. If you draw a knife through sand edge leading it will dull the blade, while drawing the knife through edge trailing will actually sharpen the blade. The knife rides over the sand, instead bumping into it. The same idea applies to the surface of the waterstone.

When I'm establishing my edge and don't care about the finest point of the edge just yet I will do an edge trailing/leading stroke, and then when I move to the finishing stage of that stone I do only an edge trailing stroke.

Hope that helps.

edit to add: on my finishing stone (6k) I only do an edge trailing stroke
 
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somber said:
So the blade rides over imperfections in the stone instead of cutting into them. Take sand, for example. If you draw a knife through sand edge leading it will dull the blade, while drawing the knife through edge trailing will actually sharpen the blade. The knife rides over the sand, instead bumping into it. The same idea applies to the surface of the waterstone.

When I'm establishing my edge and don't care about the finest point of the edge just yet I will do an edge trailing/leading stroke, and then when I move to the finishing stage of that stone I do only an edge trailing stroke.

Hope that helps.

edit to add: on my finishing stone (6k) I only do an edge trailing stroke
Click to expand...

How do you eliminate the burr with an edge-trailing stroke?

I consider myself an admirer of Murray's, and I'm always trying to simplify my steps. I've given it a go many times with my waterstones - grind clean to the apex with a fore and aft stroke, then attempt to backhone and it never fails to raise a small burr (or reveal the ghost of one that was sitting there already) no matter how light I go (or it seems to have no effect whatsoever). I get very good results stropping on newspaper at the end, but that backhoning stroke, even if applied to a microbevel, has eluded me.
 
I've never had an issue eliminating a burr. It seems this is an issue for a lot of people but I only raise a faint burr initially, and after a few edge trailing passes on each side (3-3-2-2-1-1) and drawing it through wood, the burr is almost always gone. Once you eliminate it on the 1000 grit stone, the 6000 grit should serve as a further refinement and elimination of any remaining burr while polishing the scratches from the 1000 grit.

You can further remove the burr by stropping (edge trailing stroke) on newspaper.

It's difficult to offer advice without being right there seeing what you're doing, but this is what works for me.
 
somber said:
I've never had an issue eliminating a burr. It seems this is an issue for a lot of people but I only raise a faint burr initially, and after a few edge trailing passes on each side (3-3-2-2-1-1) and drawing it through wood, the burr is almost always gone. Once you eliminate it on the 1000 grit stone, the 6000 grit should serve as a further refinement and elimination of any remaining burr while polishing the scratches from the 1000 grit.

You can further remove the burr by stropping (edge trailing stroke) on newspaper.

It's difficult to offer advice without being right there seeing what you're doing, but this is what works for me.
Click to expand...

Do you work with mostly the same steel or a variety, and what are you using for magnification?
 
HeavyHanded said:
Do you work with mostly the same steel or a variety, and what are you using for magnification?
Click to expand...

I guess I do, a lot of my knives are Hitachi metals, but if the technique is sound it should be applicable to other steels without any issues. I don't use anything to magnify the edge.
 
somber said:
I guess I do, a lot of my knives are Hitachi metals, but if the technique is sound it should be applicable to other steels without any issues. I don't use anything to magnify the edge.
Click to expand...

OK, thanks - I'm getting very good results anyway, but its just one of those techniques that I can't figure out and now consider a challenge.
 
Harpoon1 said:
Somber

Do you cut the microbevel on the 1k stone or save that until finishing up on the 6k?
Click to expand...

I don't microbevel my edges. The angle that I establish my primary edge at on the 1000 grit is the same angle that I finish at.
 
Somber

somber said:
I don't microbevel my edges. The angle that I establish my primary edge at on the 1000 grit is the same angle that I finish at.
Click to expand...

So then your "modifying" Murrays technique ? It looks like he uses a microbevel in his videos.
 
Harpoon1 said:
Somber



So then your "modifying" Murrays technique ???????
Click to expand...

Murray doesn't microbevel his knives either; the same angle that he establishes with his 1000 grit is the angle that he finishes at with his 6000.

6692427055_6736506e93_z.jpg


To make sure we're on the same page; the primary angle to you is the green and the secondary angle is the red, right?
 
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