Sharpening - Anyone else get frustrated?

F

fattymcfatfatfatty

Joined
Jun 17, 2010
Messages
26
Hey guys,

So, first off, I'll just start off by saying I have little to no experience sharpening knives. I got my DMT Dualfold C/F sharpening stone, and I started practicing my sharpening on a old beater I have. After thinking that I had gotten some sort of edge on that blade (which apparently I didn't) I decided I'd try it out on my 6 that I recently got a small chip in.

I spent the better half of 2 hours trying to sharpen out that darn chip (mind you, its a verrrry small chip), and I got absolutely nowhere, I think the only thing I accomplished doing was making it duller :mad:. So I guess that I have no idea how to sharpen a knife at all. I was using the coarse side of the sharpener to try and put a new edge on it, and I honestly don't know what I'm doing wrong :(.

/endrant

Anyway, I guess the whole point of this thread is to ask if anyone has any tippers for beginners trying to learn to sharpen... or if anyone else gets as frustrated as me while trying to sharpen.

Have a good day,
~fatty
 
Are you doing it freehand, holding the knife in one hand and the sharpener in the other? Or, are you placing the sharpener on a table or countertop and placing the knife on the sharpener?
 
Anyone who has ever tried to sharpen a knife has been frustrated at some point. It just takes a lot of practice, patience, and the right tools. Hang in there, you'll get it. And when you do, you'll realize that there are few things in life more rewarding than honing your own blade to a hair-popping edge.

First, I would make sure that you have the right equipment for the job. There are any number of gadgets out there to help you sharpen like the Sharpmaker. Also, there are a variety of guides to help ensure a constant angle against the stone, such as the Lansky guides. You can also use sandpaper and a mousepad for a forgiving method of achieving a nice convex edge.

I am a bit of a purist and prefer to sharpen free hand on the stone, and I would recommend that you learn to do this. If you can master the bench stone, you can sharpen anything.

Now, for stones, you have a lot of options. I personally use a medium Norton India stone, followed by a fine Arkansas stone, then a two-sided leather strop/hone for high carbon blades. For very hard steels and stainless, diamond stones (or sandpaper) are the way to go. Other options are ceramic and Japanese waterstones, which I would recommend you try only if you do a lot of sharpening and master your technique first, as these are expensive and require a bit of maintenance. The particular DMT stone that you have (I am assuming the Diafold) is probably good for field touch ups, but it is going to be very difficult for you to learn the proper techniques. I recommend you look at a true benchstone, possibly in a kit, several can be found here: http://www.sharpeningsupplies.com/Sharpening-Systems-and-Kits-C18.aspx?UserID=9179467&SessionID=ARX3me1PQoUT8C8N6R7V

Second, after you have the tools, it's all about technique. Maintaining your angle is key to a sharp edge, and the absolute hardest part. Try coloring the edge with a sharpie and then sharpening your blade. You'll see the edge you are hitting as the sharpie rubs off. If your angle is too shallow, you'll be hitting the bevel, too steep and you'll take off the edge. Just maintain a good 17-22 degree angle and keep sharpening one side until you raise a wire edge, then switch over to the other side and do the same. Once you have a wire edge on the coarse stone, move to the fine stone and take off the wire. I usually raise another wire edge on the fine stone and hone this away with my leather strop/hone (http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/page.aspx?c=&p=32999&cat=1,43072).

In summary:
1) get the right stones for the job
2) use a sharpie
3) maintain a constant angle
4) raise the wire edge
5) don't switch to a finer stone until you have a good wire edge
6) remove the final wire edge with very light stropping
7) practice, practice, practice...
8)..practice

Read more here: http://www.sharpeningsupplies.com/sharpening-basics.aspx
 
fattymcfatfatfatty said:
I am doing it freehand, should I be placing it on a flat surface?
Click to expand...

You could do as Adamantium (:D) suggests and get a Spyderco Sharpmaker, takes the guesswork out of a lot of this stuff.

On doing it freehand with the sharpener you have, if you are sharpening a black coated blade, you need a red Sanford Sharpie. If you are sharpening a regular blade, you can use a black one.

With the Sharpie, paint the actual edge of the knife only.

Then look at the angle, relationship, between the edge and the sharpener. Take a light stroke. Notice where and how much ink is removed from the edge. Adjust the angle of the sharpener to the edge of the knife by examining how the Sharpie ink is being removed, etc.

Do you understand that so far?

If you are slow and methodical, this should do it. If you find it won't cleanly slice a medium like notebook paper, use your fingernail and take the tip of the nail across the edge, do you feel a burr? If so, you can take that off with a leather strop made from an old belt or the cardboard back of a legal pad with the same sharpening motion. Then test it again with the tip of your fingernail.
 
This a great thread. For the better part of my life I was a professional cook and was constantly sharpening my knives on a tri-stone which I think is perfect for my Japanese chef knives but after a while of not keeping that practice up I have lost that touch. Now say with my RC-6 that steel seems to be much harder and does not take to the stone as easily.

I agree practice practice practice. I suggest buying a crappy cheap blade to practice on. That way you can play around with different angles and so on not ruining a blade that you love.
 
Alright guys, thanks for all the help :P, I really just had to rant haha. I think I'm going to do what Mr. MikePerrin recommends and send my ESEE 6 to Willey Knives, because I fear if I keep trying to sharpen it, it'll just ruin it :o.

I will continue to try and hone my skills however on my less expensive knives. I dont really want to get another sharpener as I just spent 30ish dollars on the DMT, so I think the sharpmaker is out of the question, i'm sure it would make life easier though. Thanks everyone for all the help, i'll keep practicing, and putting the tips you gave me to good use!
 
fattymcfatfatfatty said:
So, first off, I'll just start off by saying I have little to no experience sharpening knives. I got my DMT Dualfold C/F sharpening stone,
Click to expand...

If you've got the Diafold C/F sharpener, you just need one of these DMT Diafold Magna-Guide Sharpening Accessory to carve uniform bevels. It doesn't work with the big bench stones though.

http://www.knifecenter.com/kc_new/store_detail.html?s=DMTDMG


There's some info on it here in the DMT website FAQ

http://www.dmtsharp.com/dmtdiff/faqsfeedback.php#How long
 
I'll go with jbrew here. I've been playin' with sharp pointy things for 25+ years, and I first learned to sharpen them from my dad & grandfather with no-name whetstones. It's a skill that's served me well for years. Since then, I've added a sharpmaker, high quality diamond and ceramic stones, leather strop, and most recently an edge pro to the repertoire. The understanding of how to put a sharp edge on a blade makes all the fancy tools that much more effective, but at the end of the day, I know that if I HAVE to, I can touch up a blade on the bottom of a coffee mug or a stone from the river. It's worthwhile to learn.

If you have questions, by all means, feel free to PM me and I'll try to help as I can. I've gained plenty of info from these forums and if I can pay the karma debt back a bit, I'm happy to. :)
 
fattymcfatfatfatty said:
Alright guys, thanks for all the help :P, I really just had to rant haha. I think I'm going to do what Mr. MikePerrin recommends and send my ESEE 6 to Willey Knives, because I fear if I keep trying to sharpen it, it'll just ruin it :o.
Click to expand...

You can't ruin a knife by hand sharpening. I think if you keep at it, you'll get the hang of it. Maybe for the time being, set it aside and work on a lesser knife. Then come back to the RC-6. Think of it this way: would you send a rifle out to be cleaned by someone else, after you shoot it? Tools need to be maintained. Period. Learning to maintain a quality tool will only enhance your enjoyment of it. Best of luck. :thumbup:

edit: on the other hand, you could send it to me and I'll send you a nice sharp knife in return:p
 
I get frustrated daily ! Good advice in this thread, I keep learning here on the bladeforums daily! ty for all the replies.
 
The sharpie method helped me a lot. I was stuck on all the gimmicky sharpeners to try and hold the angle for me for years. Now I can use a stone with relative confidence. Still carry a hunterhoner with me for firld touch ups tho. The main thing for me is more frequent touch ups after use before the edge gets too far gone.
 
I'm new to sharpening as well (only started ~2 months ago when I got ESEE knives) so I'll give you a bit of my experience.

I was really afraid that I would permanently damage my new knives once they had some wear and needed to be touched up. So I figured the best way to learn was to take some crappy $8 folder I got on ebay (I thought cool looking knives = good knives :rolleyes:) with really poorly heat treated 440C, and some $10 diamond hones I got at house of knives. I did a lot of research on how to keep angles freehanding, and with a benchstone. I watched countless youtube videos. Now, those are great resources for learning the ABSOLUTE BASICS of sharpening. The only thing that will teach you anything however is to try, and to fail.

It took a few weeks are figuring out what worked best for me, in terms of how to hold the knife, what the proper motions were to control the angle, and how to finish/polish the edge. Eventually I had developed a technique that worked for ME, and I got a hair shaving sharp edge on this very poor quality steel. Obviously, a soft and poor steel is one of the easiest things to get a sharp edge on, because taking and polishing the material off required little effort, but this gives you a very useless and easily damaged sharp edge.

It definitely took a lot of practice to get comfortable getting an edge I was satisfied with on ESEE 1095 steel. It's harder, has a proper heat treat, and will give you an excellent working edge when you finish it properly.

You can probably disregard anything I've said, or condemn the way I practiced, anyone can say what they want about it, but I want to stress one main thing with this post.

Find what works for YOU.

EVERYONE has an opinion as to what is the best sharpening system, what is the best technique, what is the best angle, what is the best etc... It goes on and on. In the end, who is using this knife? YOU are. If you get results you can work comfortably with, go for it. No technique or system works for every person all of the time.

To add, I have also tried the sharpy method, but it didn't work for me, however other people have obviously had success with it. Try everything and see what you like :thumbup:
 
I am frustrated too...

I have a dmt diafold c/f, a sharpmaker, and have tried mousepad
and sandpaper...
I feel like I have never been able to get my four as sharp
as when I got it new.

I also feel like it is ruined... I wish I could start over...

oct.
 
wolffbite said:
I'm new to sharpening as well (only started ~2 months ago when I got ESEE knives) so I'll give you a bit of my experience.

I was really afraid that I would permanently damage my new knives once they had some wear and needed to be touched up. So I figured the best way to learn was to take some crappy $8 folder I got on ebay (I thought cool looking knives = good knives :rolleyes:) with really poorly heat treated 440C, and some $10 diamond hones I got at house of knives. I did a lot of research on how to keep angles freehanding, and with a benchstone. I watched countless youtube videos. Now, those are great resources for learning the ABSOLUTE BASICS of sharpening. The only thing that will teach you anything however is to try, and to fail.

It took a few weeks are figuring out what worked best for me, in terms of how to hold the knife, what the proper motions were to control the angle, and how to finish/polish the edge. Eventually I had developed a technique that worked for ME, and I got a hair shaving sharp edge on this very poor quality steel. Obviously, a soft and poor steel is one of the easiest things to get a sharp edge on, because taking and polishing the material off required little effort, but this gives you a very useless and easily damaged sharp edge.

It definitely took a lot of practice to get comfortable getting an edge I was satisfied with on ESEE 1095 steel. It's harder, has a proper heat treat, and will give you an excellent working edge when you finish it properly.

You can probably disregard anything I've said, or condemn the way I practiced, anyone can say what they want about it, but I want to stress one main thing with this post.

Find what works for YOU.

EVERYONE has an opinion as to what is the best sharpening system, what is the best technique, what is the best angle, what is the best etc... It goes on and on. In the end, who is using this knife? YOU are. If you get results you can work comfortably with, go for it. No technique or system works for every person all of the time.

To add, I have also tried the sharpy method, but it didn't work for me, however other people have obviously had success with it. Try everything and see what you like :thumbup:
Click to expand...

Amen!
 
I have had good results with the sharpmaker but i have been sharpening for awhile and can get the same or better results from benchstones
 
I made a post here that won't show you how to sharpen, but can help show you what you are working with. http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=762991

For me, the biggest thing I have had to learn about sharpening is that it takes a lot longer to reach the actual edge than you think it does. Just because you see new scratches over most of the bevel doesn't mean you have changed the edge at all, it can still be soft and smooth. I *think* that many people can control their angle fairly well, but they quit before they get their knife sharp. Using something like the Diafolds is good, but it takes a while to work the whole edge down.

For something like the 3, in order to use a Diafold, I will lay the knife flat on a table, and use the stone to shape the edge at the angle I want. Use maybe 100 strokes, using very little pressure, then flip the knife over and do the same. Eventually, you will be able to feel a burr that will curl over sideways; once you get rid of that burr, you will have the knife as sharp as it can get for that grit of stone. You can stop there, or go to a finer stone and do the same thing again for a nicer edge.

There are a LOT of sharpening threads, including the Diafolds, in the Maintenance, Tinkering, and Embellishment forum.
 
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