sharpening, bevels and strops, oh my! newb needs help

[tinmaddog]

I've been trying to get a handle on all the terms that you guys throw around all the time and I think I'm kind of getting the idea. I still have a few questions about sharpening that I can't quite pin down though.

First, I looked at http://www.mhcable.com/~yocraft/sosak/convex.htm to get an idea of what a convex bevel is and what the implications are. Do you think that gives a pretty good overview of the topic? Also, when you talk about stropping, do you mean the entire width of the khuk?

Second, in http://www.himalayan-imports.com/faq/Sharp.htm Cliff Stamp seems to be saying that if you use "traditional flat hones and such" you'll end up with a flat bevel, but Yvsa seems to be saying that you are going to have to use hones and files.

Third, when you use a chakma do you run it straight up the blade? I think I get how that's supposed to work, but could someone clarify the exact motion a little.

Fourth, and finally (for now at least), strops. Two things: where do you get the different grits that Yvsa mentions (Tripoli, Jewelers Rouge and Green Chrome), and how do you best attach them to the leather to make the strop. I googled those products and came up with a wide variety of things all with the same names. What grit should each be?

Sorry for all the questions. I'm sure all of you have been over this many times. I just want to make sure that I know wtf I'm doing once I get my khuk so I don't screw it up. Thanks again guys!

 

[munk]

I like talking to Yvsa about these things. He's had a lifetime of trying different techniques with all kinds of blades and tools.

I suspect he'll be along here to help.

They say you can't really get a true 'convex' edge from a stone. But the natural variation of your hand and eye coordination changes the approach to the draw of the stone sufficiently to come darn close, imho. Yvsa always said the beauty of the convex edge was not only its strength, but the fact you could sharpen a blade in the wilderness on a flat river stone if you had to.

You can achieve wonders with a sandpaper paddle with soft foam or rubber backing and a very fine grit sandpaper.


munk

 

[hollowdweller]

You can achieve wonders with a sandpaper paddle with soft foam or rubber backing and a very fine grit sandpaper.
munk

I can say I never truly got a good edge on one of my khuks till I used the method Munk is describing. I tried and actually bought several sharpeners without real success, until I finally tried the method described above, which would have saved me lots of $$ on sharpeners had I tried it in the first place.

 

[tinmaddog]

One more thing I forgot. Is bluing a good idea? I was thinking cold bluing plus a Tuff cloth to keep the rust away. Thanks.

 

[munk]

I'd scratch a blue job faster than I could put one on.


Hollow, the diamond sharpeners are pretty neat. I like them as much as the sandpaper paddle. I think it was you, Hollow, that got me to try the sandpaper route. I still have the paddle sitting on this desk, as well as the DMT diamond hones...you know, just in case something needs sharpening fast.



munk

 

[hollowdweller]

I love the diamond sharpeners, but I can't get the convex edge going with them. I've got this 3 sided one that it good to kind of straighten up an edge and then move on to the mouse pad/strop thing. I think Ragnars got the best prices on those diamond hones. He also sells a diamond stropping paste.

 

[Yvsa]

Well I proved yet again last Saturday that a convex edge could be easily obtained with a flat hone. Cliff Stamp doesn't know everything although some folks, specially noobs, thinks he does sometimes.

I used the coarse, black, side of a DMT Duofold and put a convex edge on Svashtar's Cherokee Rose. Svastar now has bragging rights of having one of the very, very, few knives hand sharpened by me with a flat hone and strop that has a super sharp convex edge.
I used the coarse side of the DMT and my jeweler's rouge strop to prove a point.
And that was that a knife doesn't need a highly polished edge to be cat's ass hair shaving sharp.
The Bowie readily sliced a half gallon milk jug in two with a single swipe by me, and was also done by others. I guarantee you the Cherokee Rose Bowie was, "By God Life is Cheap Here on the Brazo's" sharp.

Before everyone started worrying about the flat bevels everyone that sharpened a knife with a flat stone, hone, file, or other abrasive achieved a convex edge.
It's nigh impossible to hold the same angle when hand sharpening anything with an edge be it a knife, hoe, axe, or whatever.
The natural rocking of your hand will bring up a convex edge if one doesn't get anal about holding the exact same edge, it just happens naturally.
And by slightly rocking your hand that is holding the knife it is even easier to achieve.
The main thing when sharpening anything is too be sure and get a continuous burr all along one edge before starting on the other side.
If you don't then you're just playing around and wasting steel rather than sharpening your knife.:grumpy:

The compounds can be purchased from most any of the knife material supply houses such as Texas Knife Supply I think it's called.
I have the link at home and I'm to lazy to look it up right now on Google as I would have to because of being out of state.
Most apply to the leather by simply rubbing it on, it's much like a tube of very hard lipstick similar to what your wife/girlfriend uses.

TMD I am a big fan of the blued knife. True, it does scratch off fairly easy but it doesn't all scratch off and is easily reapplied when it gets too thin.
Personally I just think they look nicer as well as help to prevent rust. Do what you choose to do with your khuks, that makes them your very own and different than the ones everyone else has.

 

[Nasty]

...And that was that a knife doesn't need a highly polished edge to be cat's ass hair shaving sharp.

"Sheba" will never again look at an ndn the same way Edutsi!

A couple of pics of the flat honing and the result:

 

[kamagong]

Is that you sharpening the Rose Yvsa? I almost didn't recognize you.

 

[Yvsa]

Is that you sharpening the Rose Yvsa? I almost didn't recognize you.

Yup,as sure as a dog shakes all over when he's passin peach seeds.

The Rose doesn't look as big as it really is when it's in my hand does it?
And I'm just a short little feller compared to most of the old farts on the HI forum, however I'm probably three times their width.

 

[kamagong]

I see that you brought your blackwood chainpuri. I've said it before and I'll say it again, that is one beautiful knife.

 

[Yvsa]

I see that you brought your blackwood chainpuri. I've said it before and I'll say it again, that is one beautiful knife.

Oh,yeah! Took me a minute but now I know what you mean.
Thanks, I dearly love that khuk and it was one of Uncle Bill's favorites. And -That- is saying something!!!!
I still say that African Knobthorn is the absolute dirtiest wood I have ever worked with!!!! :grumpy:

 

[Khukuri Monster]

Fourth, and finally (for now at least), strops. Two things: where do you get the different grits that Yvsa mentions (Tripoli, Jewelers Rouge and Green Chrome), and how do you best attach them to the leather to make the strop. I googled those products and came up with a wide variety of things all with the same names. What grit should each be?

Each manufacturer has their own grit, so if you buy chromium oxide (the green rouge) from one store, it might be different from the green stuff from another store.

Right now I only use the white (aluminum oxide) rouge. This stuff seems to be the finest. I put it on a leather belt which goes on a belt sander, so I can strop anything pretty quickly. So, I don't worry about the grit, I just go with the finest available.

When I was still using hand strops, I used the green rouge and then the white. I had some yellow jewlers rouge but it didn't work as well from me. I bought the green and yellow rouge from a woodworking store called Woodcraft Supply. They have a lot of different stores around, there might be one in your area. If not, any woodworking store probably has the rouges.

If you still can't find anything, you can order from an online place like Jantz Supply (www.jantzsupply.com - this is where I bought my white rouge from). Or, find an auto parts store and buy some Mother's metal polish. One of my friends says that he saw good results by putting metal polish on a strop and using that instead of compound. I don't like doing that as much because it seems like the metal polish dries out after being left on the strop for a day.

I personally would not use Tripoli because it is made to be used on wood and non-ferrous metals. So I don't think it would be as effective at cutting hardened steel. You can always try it though. They sell some at Home Depot. They might have some jewlers rouge there too.

When you strop the khuk I would say that it isn't necessary to sharpen the entire edge. You should be doing most of the cutting with the part near the tip. This is the only part of the khukuri which is hardened, so if you sharpen any other part, it will dull quite quickly, being softened steel. Of course, it will also be easier to sharpen, and you might want to use the softened part of the edge for other tasks, like cutting paper or whatever, so not to dull the "sweet spot".

I think everyone has their own way of using a chakmak.