Sharpening bk14?

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Jan 4, 2012
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I am definitely humbled tonight. With my spyderco sharp maker (diamonds, medium, fine, ultra fine) and my knives plus strop block (green compound) I was unable to reprofile my bk14 to be hair popping sharp. I can't understand it---- I can get all spyderco's hair popping as well as my Esee 3 and izula. My thoughts are maybe the inclusive 30deg back bevel and 40 deg micro bevel inclusive is not the best setup for Becker's since the blade stock is significantly thicker? Do they come from the factory with a bevel/micro bevel setup? Please help!

I have heard about convexing Becker's, but I have no idea where to start with that or the best process. Any links to videos reprofiling from the standard bevel/micro bevel to a convex or any details on the process is greatly appreciated! Thanks in advance!
 
I've done a few Beckers with my Sharpmaker.
With the thicker steel it takes significantly longer with the diamond rods.
I'd suggest working on one side with your diamond rod. Go until you get a bur.
Repeat on the other side.
Then you should be able to alternate strokes down to the ultra fine.
Hope this helps. It's worked for me.
Rinse the diamond rods after 60-80 strokes.
 
Sharpmaker = troublemaker

And I don't mean any disrespect, it works.......to touch an edge up. A reprofile, IMHO, requires something more clandestine for the job.

I use a KME for alot of reasons, reprofiling is just one of them. I can take an extra coarse diamond hone, and makes me some new edges in just a few seconds.....and I don't round the tip.

Which is what happens to alot that attempt a reprofile with a Sharpmaker.

My recommendation, get a guided system, and make that fella scary larry shaaaaaarp.

Moose
 
Virtuovice on youtube can show you how. Here's mine.
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I really like the sharpmaker system.....It is a great maintainence system....Moose is right though it is not intended to reprofile a blade....You can do it but ya better bring lunch cause you are gonna be at it a while.....

I have seen the results of Moose's KME system and I plan to obtain one myself.......It appears to be the Benz of systems derived from "Grandpaw Ray's "original system.

Ethan
 
I've got a guided Lansky system, and my results with that on the 14 aren't that great either.
Cheap sandpaper of different grits, and a tough mousepad. That's what works best for me in touching it up/keeping it sharp. Easy, cheap, and it works. Hair popping, too.
 
I had problems with my Sharpmaker rounding the tip of my BK-2 as well. I got sick of messing with it and brought it back to LL bean. Traded it in for a Gatco guided system and it solved the issue. I used it to reprofile a few of my blades and fix my BK-2 point. I have also had good results free hand with a Smiths tri hone.

Jeremy
 
update----i worked a tad more on it with the sharpmaker this morning. it will shave hair now. my question is though------is it more beneficial to convex the edge on beckers? does a convex edge hold up better to hard use then the traditional bevel/microbevel?
 
update----i worked a tad more on it with the sharpmaker this morning. it will shave hair now. my question is though------is it more beneficial to convex the edge on beckers? does a convex edge hold up better to hard use then the traditional bevel/microbevel?

In my experience, yes.
 
does a convex edge hold up better to hard use then the traditional bevel/microbevel?

Absolutely. It will hold up to hard use better/longer and maintenance and resharpening is just a matter of a quick strop. You won't get that same scary sharpness, but you'll hold a working edge far longer.
 
Man, if my thumb wasn't all mummy wrapped, I'd throw a post in this thread that would make history.........

But alas, mummy thumb.......

I like V edges.....

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Moose
 
Hey Moose, maybe I can take up some of the slack...

I've been thinking about this a lot lately (translation... this is going to be a long post), and I think I'm coming in on the V edge side of the equation. When you get right down to it, the convex edge can be thought of as a primary bevel / micro bevel where the primary bevel is a curve that ends in a micro bevel, rather than one or two straight lines. "I think" the relative strength or advantages attributed to either style edge are probably more in the realm of theory rather than any practical difference. As far as sharpness is concerned, that comes down to the steel, the heat treat, and the final angle of the edge. As far as longevity of the edge, that comes down to what the edge is used for, the steel, the heat treat, the final angle of the edge, and the geometry of the blade. The reasons behind using primary (or convex curve) and secondary micro bevels, are just as likely to be there to overcome compromises in the steel, heat treat, or blade geometry (and its influence on usability). There are plenty of scary sharp scandi blades out there to make the point that a micro bevel isn't really necessary for a sharp or lasting edge. This doesn't mean that there aren't particular applications or geometries where each system holds an advantage over the other. I think properly executed convexing is probably better for thicker and or steeper saber ground blades, and I think thinner ground edges and most hollow ground blades probably don't benefit from convexing. I know from experience that hatchets and axes benefit from a thinning by convexing of their primary edge, often with a concaving or hollow grinding behind the leading edge, so I suppose if your knifes geometry (and intended use) has more in common with an axe than a scalpel, i.e. you're using it as a sharpened wedge, convexing may be of some benefit.

When it comes to edge maintenance, stropping is very simple and effective, and it works just as well on a V edge as a convex edge, so there is no advantage there to either system, though it might be argued that the muscle memory you will develop convexing a blade would be an advantage when stropping, at least over systems that guide the abrasives over the blade, but then that advantage can be easily overcome by incorporating the strop and medium into the system. It might also be argued that the muscle memory gained from the sandpaper mousepad system works to your disadvantage, because it is not a shallow enough angle for stropping. I've seen a fair number of sharp knives whose edges were blunted by stropping at too steep an angle. People don't realize how abrasive polishing compounds are, or how many pounds per square inch of pressure there is on the sharp edge of a knife when they're pressing it against a strop. At the wrong angle, stropping, and I suppose more generally convexing on a pliable surface can actually do more to blunt an edge than sharpen it. You can literally polish the edge right off your blade using a strop at the wrong angle.

If I were starting fresh today, and knowing what "I think" I know now, I'm sure I would not buy all the sharpening gear I've got, I'm equally sure that I'd have scary sharp edges, some of them courtesy of some neoprene and sandpaper, and some the result of some sort of clamping angle maintaining system, all of them likely honed with some leather and polishing compound. That said, I think the "average" person would get better, more consistent results sharpening with a system that maintains the proper angle and results in a V grind edge. I think one of the main advantages of our modern super steels is that the micro bevel really isn't that necessary, modern steels are strong/tough enough to have a very sharp edge with good edge retention at a single angle, perhaps a little thicker than the old primary angle, and a little thinner than the old micro bevel. They just don't need the blunting micro bevel to have good edge retention. The problem with that though, is that very few people have the fine motor control to maintain a consistent angle without a sharpening system to guide them. I really don't think people can realize the full benefit of the super steels edge retention without a mechanical sharpening aid. Now, if you're not willing to invest in a sharpening system, convexing is probably the next best answer, as intentionally convexing the edge is probably more repeatable for most of us than trying to consistently maintain the exact same angle for every pass over the abrasive.

Now, what was the question? :)

Erik
 
Lmao.....good post.

Symmetry=sharp

Freehand will never equal symmetric angles, don't care how good you are. I've met a couple of fellas that can get a knife very sharp freehand, but nothing like I can on a system.

Freehand is an art, and a form of meditation. And it will get your knife sharp, but not as sharp as I can get a knife on my KME.

Perfect angles everytime, a little tooth or polished like a Ferrari, guides do it the same way everytime. Consistant, repeatable, symmetric edges. Thats the start, then, you gotta figure out what kind of finish you like. Bonesaw or baby shaver.....

Moose
 
I use the KME that Moose uses (actually bought it after one of his threads) I am able to put a wicked edge on my stuff now. I used to use a Sharpmaker and could never do it right.
 
Wow! I'm impressed with that KME system. Just ordered mine. Been using japanese water stones, this system looks miles easier.
 
Wow! I'm impressed with that KME system. Just ordered mine. Been using japanese water stones, this system looks miles easier.

You can get Waterstones from Ron and KME for your KME Sharpener. Many grits and many selections available.

I'm tellin' ya, Ron's lives for sharpening, and I highly recommend you call and just talk to him, he's awesome.

For a Yankee.....

:D

Moose
 
You can get Waterstones from Ron and KME for your KME Sharpener. Many grits and many selections available.

I'm tellin' ya, Ron's lives for sharpening, and I highly recommend you call and just talk to him, he's awesome.

For a Yankee.....

:D

Moose

Sweet! Thanks for the heads up!
 
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