Sharpening broadheads .

K

Kevin the grey

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Aug 26, 2005
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Hi I was told we have a few bow hunters here . I have magnus two blade broadheads . I have made them shaving sharp . My poor nude forearm is a cause for levity at times . There seems to be a secondary bevel which is at a much more acute angle than that which I put on .
This bevel appears to be at about 10 degrees . ( 5 Degrees per side)

I may not be describing this perfectly so feel free to ask for clarification . Even If what I did was correct in itself it seems to me that this secondary bevel could use a touch of the stone as well . Kinda smooth off any oxidation or microscopic imperfections that build up in storage and handling .

Also can you give me a good "use what you have around the house method of stropping" ? That may just settle the whole issue here or at least be the next step .

What do you think ?
 
My uncle started bowhunting back in the 1920's. During the 1960's I had a discussion with him about the best way to sharpen broadheads. I sharpened all of my knives to a smooth razor edge and I assumed that would be the best way to sharpen a broadhead. He swore by using a small, 4 or 6 inch, smooth bastard file. He claimed that a filed edge sliced through meat and blood vessels better than a smooth edge. He changed my whole outlook on sharpening.

I did a bunch of experiments and I found that a filed edge really did slice through fibrous material well. When I accidentally cut myself on a file-sharpened bayonet or machete it really did bleed excessively (and hurt like a sonofabitch).
 
I,ve never gotten the knack of using a file to sharpen . The most I have done is to bring an abused edge back to where I could use a stone on it .

I don,t know enough to say much about a toothy edge . I imagine they could serve to catch and cut on vessels instead of sliding over them . On the other hand I cannot see a truly sharp blade sliding over a vessel .

Serrations may make for a more durable edge in the respect that if they dull slightly they will still "saw " through . If a sharp plain edge dulls slightly it might slide over .

At my level of experience its kind of a catch 22 .
 
For reprofiling I tend to run the file parallel to the edge (draw filing). I finish filing into the edge though this can be awful inconvenient. I can hold a knife handle or and arrow shaft in my right hand and stabilize the point by pushing it into something or resting it on something. That easily lets me file into the right side of the edge. I have to reverse things and have the point towards myself to do the left side. I tend to use a clamp or vice to hold things when I do that. For a machete I do the left side by holding blade verticle with the edge away from me and the point into a block of wood. I reverse the file and hold it by the cutting end and pull the file towards myself to cut in towards the edge. That would be real hard with a broadhead, but works with big knives.
 
I was curious about the direction of the microteeth, you can bais the teeth in the direction of the cut, so a blade is more aggression on a draw towards you for example versus a thrust away from you. If the teeth on the broad head were pointed sloping towards the point they would be more aggressive in the flesh than if they were sloped towards the arrow flights. I would be curious if it would make a difference on wound channels. You can notice the effect very strongly slicing meats with a knife so sharpened.

-Cliff
 
Cliff there are so many armed camps of thought on serration versus plain blade cuts . Both say blood letting is greater using their method .

The plain blades say a serrated cut gives nore surface area for clotting to occur and that a clean cut offers no purchase for the clotting blood .

The serrated camp says a clean cut is more likely to close back together and heal quicker .

Me I just stay back in the treeline and collect all the broadheads when the fighting is over .

Now if you want to talk vented over non-vented heads ? L:O:L
 
That is where a little science would be useful, it isn't like that is a difficult question to answer from a medical point of view. In fact it probably has already been answered. Of course from a practical hunting point of view you just use both and see if it makes a difference. Ideally you do it with a bunch of your friends as there is likely large random influences on wound reactions due to the exact conditions of entry.

-Cliff
 
If you think about it, from the times of knapped flint, through hammered bronze, to forged steel, and now with modern CNC mechanical broadheads, the hunter learned(s) through experience the strengths and limitations of his weapon combination. I currently shoot a modern cam compound with overdraw and super-light mechanical heads. They fly through a deer at 30 yards and drive deep into the ground. I've cut the whole aorta off of two deer with well placed shots and dropped one large doe by severing her spinal column. I've also lost a couple of deer by taking shots I never should have considered...

I also have hunted with a 70# longbow using forged three-blade heads sharpened with a mill file. At 20 yards, I could go through the chest of a large deer and drive the head 1/2" into a maple sapling.

All that rambling to support the following statement: Does it REALLY matter? :o

I saw a great demonstration by a traditional archer comparing Bear Twin-Blade heads and modern fixed heads. He held the arrows in a vise and pressed a section of deer hide down on the tip of the blade. The Bear blades (file sharpened) sliced cleanly through the hide while the chisel point of the modern head was very difficult to get started through the hide.

my $.02
 
I think that unless there is a blatant difference with a consitant test media that both bleeds and clots it will never be settled .

The difference in muscle tone , attitude of the animal , vagaries in flight of the arrow itself . I think science could answer the question to the best of their ability and five minutes later someone can turn around and say " You forgot to consider this . "

ME ? I follow the advice here as far as sharpening is concerned and concentrate on putting the arrow where it will do the most good .
 
Kevin the grey said:
I think science could answer the question to the best of their ability and five minutes later someone can turn around and say " You forgot to consider this . "
Click to expand...

I have not studied it extensively, but I would assume for example medical scalpels are sharpened so as to produce the least damage done to tissue and enable the fastest cleaning. That would be a starting point.

I would also assume there is significant research done on the wound trauma on stabbings on people with both serrated vs plain edged blades. If you were so inclined it should not be difficult to find the right people to talk to. This of course isn't related to how to place an arrow most effectively, just on how the tissue reacts to a given finish.

The arrow press is an example of bad science. Consider doing the same test with a sewing needle and a end of a claw hammer. You would need to consider an "impact" under the same velocity as an arrow in flight.

But of course as a hunter you just do it and see if it makes a difference, taking into account the random deviations from one shot to the next so you would have to look at a fairly large sample unless the influence was really dramatic.

-Cliff
 
This just fascinates me . Using human test subjects is just that , subjective .
Two identical wounds .Did one person see the blade coming ? Did the others blood have exactly the same clotting ability .

Did the person who didn,t see the wound look down see it and freak out with blood pressure to match ?

Was one persons muscle tone a factor ? Thin clothing , thick clothing , no clothing .

Was one blade introduced with ten footpounds of force and the other with one footpound less ?

I am not a scientist and I could come up with a list of variations meters long that simply cannot be accounted for . Time of day , time of year , age , even humidity/hydration may play a role . Did one subject drink a lot of water ? How fast did his body take in that water ?

I can just see Mr. Scientist/doctor with a clipboard of questions querying some poor slob as he slowly exsanguinates in front of him .

Sir ? Were you aware of the attack ? How hard did he thrust it into your body? Sir ? SIR????????????? Subject unresponsive . (hmmmmm I wonder if thats a factor?) L:O:L

I don,t even think we could say "generally speaking" and science isn,t about that at all .
 
You might have to line up your test subjects single-file and see how many you go through.:D
 
Kevin the grey said:
Using human test subjects is just that , subjective .
Click to expand...

A person is often subjective, however by defination, patterns in groups of people are objective. Forensic pathology would be the science that studied that question. Like all sciences it is based on observation, postulation and verification through experimentation, direct if possible but usually simulated.

-Cliff
 
I have never been half so much impressed by science as I am by nature .

Nature is so much more honest in her mistakes . Cleans up after herself too .
 
Cliff Stamp said:
The arrow press is an example of bad science. Consider doing the same test with a sewing needle and a end of a claw hammer. You would need to consider an "impact" under the same velocity as an arrow in flight.
-Cliff
Click to expand...

You are correct, and I forgot to clarify my point... The archer in question was demonstrating why modern broadheads were inappropriate for traditional bows. They just don't throw the arrow fwith enough energy to take advantage of the bone-shattering design of the chisel point heads. The twin-blade bears with a sharp leading edge will easily penetrate the hide and continue on to the vitals with enough energy to inflict fatal damage.

It continues to come back to KNOW YOUR EQUIPMENT! :D With a bow, I prefer as large a wound channel as possible and an exit wound low on the abdomen (such as you'd see from a short-range shot from a tall tree stand). Leaves a great blood trail! If I knew I could guarantee a heart/lung shot every time, I would feel confident with even a field point (sarcasm), but that's why it's called hunting and not "getting".

J-
 
The purpose of science is simply to understand nature. Sometimes it is useful, sometimes it is entertaining, and some times it is destructive. It just depends on how you choose to apply the knowledge you gain.

-Cliff
 
Cliff Stamp said:
The purpose of science is simply to understand nature. Sometimes it is useful, sometimes it is entertaining, and some times it is destructive. It just depends on how you choose to apply the knowledge you gain.

-Cliff
Click to expand...

That is too idealic and more reflects a personal philosophy . There is no purpose to science except the ones we apply . Look at our track record . At best we as a species pay lip service to nature .
 
jdrew614 said:
The archer in question was demonstrating why modern broadheads were inappropriate for traditional bows. They just don't throw the arrow fwith enough energy to take advantage of the bone-shattering design of the chisel point heads.
Click to expand...

I can easily understand how such a head qould need more impact energy to provide maximum benefit, but I don't think a hand push would demonstrate this because the force of impact from an arrow from a traditional bow would be so much greater they would not be comparable. Just shoot a chicken or something with both types with a traditional vs compound bow and note the difference there. Or at least make a very violent hand stab.

-Cliff
 
Not much clotting if you're cutting veins and arteries, so I would imagine that an arrow head that is sharp enough (like freshly napped flint) or has enough micro-serrations (coarsely sharpened steel) to easily grab and sever rubber bands loosely looped between thumb and forefinger would have a much greater effect at low powers than a target arrow or polished arrow (relatively sharp but so smooth the veins just slide around the arrow with maybe only a nick... they are very elastic and are free to move a bit) driven clean through an animal.
 
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