Sharpening difficulty (A2 vs O2 vs 440HC vs 14C28N)

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xil3

Joined
Dec 20, 2011
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I was just curious to see a comparison of the sharpening difficulty between those different steels. I understand that the heat treat plays a big role, but I just want to get a general idea.

From my understanding, O1 is probably the easiest to sharpen out of those, but what about the others? How do they compare to each other?

The reason for these questions, is because I'm looking for a new folding knife, and was considering a high carbon, rather than stainless. The current folders I have now (S30V - Spyderco Sage 2, VG-10 - Spyderco Delica, and 154CM - Benchmade Griptillian), are very hard to sharpen. I don't know if that's because of the heat treat. I did read that Spyderco and Benchmade like to put a very hard RC on their knives, hence making them crazy hard; but I really don't want something that I'm going to spend a ridiculously long time sharpening (even using DMT diamond stones).
 
I have some experience with 14C28N and It's really not that "hard" to sharpen. I don't consider any steel to be hard to sharpen, just some take a great deal of time longer than others. For example, it took me 5.5 hours to reprofile a TiLT (Vanax 75) to 15° per side. A Skyline would take me maybe an hour to reprofile. This is all on a Wicked Edge, so I can't imagine using bench stones.
 
440C is easier to sharpen than almost all SSs. VG-10, however, has never been an issue for me to sharpen. I am a Spyderco guy, and most of my blades are in VG-10....not hard at all. Now, something like ZDP-189? A beeeyyyyaaatch to sharpen, and don't let anyone tell you any differently. As for looking for a carbon steel folder....good luck. Go buy a $10 Opinel....
 
FWIW, the only knife I've had in 14C28N was a Kershaw OD-1, and I really liked the steel. It was easy to sharpen and touch up and took a very fine edge. I've also had good luck with other Sandvik steels (12C27 and 13C26).

Andrew
 
Thanks for all the input!

I'm a huge fan of O1 so far -- I've been able to get it really sharp, really quick (Spyderco Bushcraft). Unfortunately (as someone mentioned already), there aren't that many folders that use high carbon steel. The only ones I found were well over $100, and traditional style. I couldn't find any 'new age' looking folders (like Spyderco, or Kershaw) using high carbon.

I ordered a Bark River Aurora (A2), which should be coming real soon - that'll give me some opportunity to test A2.
 
What type of equipment are you using to sharpen?

As far as "high carbon" steel folders, there's plenty of options from most major brands but most of us knife folks like to know exactly what steel, not simply "HC" or "stainless steel". My personal favorite is the Spyderco Gayle Bradley in CPM-M4 and the Benchmade 710 also in M4 (the base model is D2 tool steel, also not a stainless). Then you've got ZDP-189 which is technically a stainless steel but it acts as a carbon steel and must be treated with care to prevent rust & pitting.
 
Cereal_killer said:
What type of equipment are you using to sharpen?

As far as "high carbon" steel folders, there's plenty of options from most major brands but most of us knife folks like to know exactly what steel, not simply "HC" or "stainless steel". My personal favorite is the Spyderco Gayle Bradley in CPM-M4 and the Benchmade 710 also in M4 (the base model is D2 tool steel, also not a stainless). Then you've got ZDP-189 which is technically a stainless steel but it acts as a carbon steel and must be treated with care to prevent rust & pitting.
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My apologies -- I'm looking for folders in O1, A2, 1095 - pretty much tool steel, except for D2 (heard it was similar to S30V - taking forever to sharpen).
 
To my understanding the "hard to sharpen" steels just means your doing the same thing longer than the "easy to sharpen" steels. Same method, technique, etc your just going at it longer to get the same results because the steel doesn't want to grind down as easily. That extra time gives people more time to screw up as they might not be as consistent as time goes on or get as much of a change from doing an additional 2-3 swipes across the stone and checking so they assume their doing nothing and it's too hard to sharpen.

Oh and the Damascus Kershaws use various carbon steels layered and than folded a few times to make up the blade. Beyond that I can't think of any modern folders that have a carbon steel blade for a budget really.
 
xil3 said:
My apologies -- I'm looking for folders in O1, A2, 1095 - pretty much tool steel, except for D2 (heard it was similar to S30V - taking forever to sharpen).
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Benchmade used to use a lot of M2, they've pretty much gave it up in favor of D2 but they're still of there.

How long any steel takes depends on your equipment, what are you using? Diamond makes quick[er] work of anything.
 
Bob6794 said:
To my understanding the "hard to sharpen" steels just means your doing the same thing longer than the "easy to sharpen" steels. Same method, technique, etc your just going at it longer to get the same results because the steel doesn't want to grind down as easily. That extra time gives people more time to screw up as they might not be as consistent as time goes on or get as much of a change from doing an additional 2-3 swipes across the stone and checking so they assume their doing nothing and it's too hard to sharpen.

Oh and the Damascus Kershaws use various carbon steels layered and than folded a few times to make up the blade. Beyond that I can't think of any modern folders that have a carbon steel blade for a budget really.
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I think my problem is that I don't have the patience to sit there for an hour (or more) sharpening 1 blade. I like to see progress, or else I just get demotivated (not sure if that's even the right word in this case :p).

I don't even need a blade that will stay sharp forever - I'd prefer to sharpen more often, but not spend large amounts of time actually sharpening.

And it doesn't have to be budget - I'm willing to pay whatever is needed to get a nice one.

How long any steel takes depends on your equipment, what are you using? Diamond makes quick[er] work of anything.
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On the bench, I'm currently using a Smith's TRI-6 Arkansas TRI-HONE Sharpening Stones, and when I'm just sitting on the couch, a DMT FWFC Double Sided Diafold Sharpener Fine / Coarse. I also have a Sharpmaker, but I prefer doing it by hand, and getting good at that.
 
I am using the DMT Aligner with C/F/EF I find one of the harder things with the diamond with most steels I use is that I have to be careful with what I am doing as they remove a lot of steel quite fast if I am not paying attention. The steels I have the most experience with so far is some no name carbon steels, opinel carbon steel, SAK stainless steels, 440a in my rough riders. I've been procrastinating on tackling the S110V in my Mule Team 18 as I plan on reprofiling that one.

I don't see how it can take 1hour to sharpen a single blade unless your reprofiling, in fact I just sharpened up a blade in the course of 2 songs and was taking my time to try to get it sharper than my previous attempts which was met with some success. I'd imagine the S110V may take at most 1 more song (or just Freebird) for me to quickly sharpen and I may or may not bring the Coarse stone into the mix, compared to the F/EF stones I just used.The DMT's are quite aggressive, if you want to speed up the process of sharpening keep using those over the arkansas or at least use that for the more agressive stones on them before switching over the arkansas.
 
KnottyEagle said:
I have some experience with 14C28N and It's really not that "hard" to sharpen. I don't consider any steel to be hard to sharpen, just some take a great deal of time longer than others. For example, it took me 5.5 hours to reprofile a TiLT (Vanax 75) to 15° per side. A Skyline would take me maybe an hour to reprofile. This is all on a Wicked Edge, so I can't imagine using bench stones.
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Not sure I understand you. Anyone experienced in free hand will get the job done quicker than someone using a guided system. Assuming the same stones, surface area plays a significant role in the time spent. I have steels that Are just as nasty as vanax in my collection but never spent that long on a reprofile. Russ
 
mycough said:
Not sure I understand you. Anyone experienced in free hand will get the job done quicker than someone using a guided system. Assuming the same stones, surface area plays a significant role in the time spent. I have steels that Are just as nasty as vanax in my collection but never spent that long on a reprofile. Russ
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This has actually crossed my mind since I used the DMT Aligner to reprofile my blades, I actually thought about picking up a cheap diamond benchstone to do more of the brute force work for the days I need to remove a lot of steel. The major thing that stopped me was when I realized that if that day ever came where I needed to grind away that much metal that they actually make an XXC stone for the aligner which is stupidly course to my understanding.

So yeah I have to agree with mycough someone who knows what they are doing can probably reprofile a blade a lot quicker on a benchstone than someone who is using a guided setup. The amount of steel that is making contact with the stone plays a pretty big role. In my case I have 4x1in stones and I can't even use the full length of them, even a 6x2in stone has 300% more surface area to use. You can do a lot more with that even if your not utilizing the full length of the stone having double the width will make a pretty big difference.
 
Bob6794 said:
This has actually crossed my mind since I used the DMT Aligner to reprofile my blades, I actually thought about picking up a cheap diamond benchstone to do more of the brute force work for the days I need to remove a lot of steel. The major thing that stopped me was when I realized that if that day ever came where I needed to grind away that much metal that they actually make an XXC stone for the aligner which is stupidly course to my understanding.

So yeah I have to agree with mycough someone who knows what they are doing can probably reprofile a blade a lot quicker on a benchstone than someone who is using a guided setup. The amount of steel that is making contact with the stone plays a pretty big role. In my case I have 4x1in stones and I can't even use the full length of them, even a 6x2in stone has 300% more surface area to use. You can do a lot more with that even if your not utilizing the full length of the stone having double the width will make a pretty big difference.
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Invest in a DMT C/F Duo-Sharp in 8" or 10" size, and use your Aligner clamp with it; you'll never regret it. I tend to believe the Aligner clamp works even better in conjunction with a bench hone, allowing more freedom of movement than with the guided rods, which limit the travel of the already-small hones. Surface area will make a much bigger difference than will buying a still-small hone in coarser grit. I relied on a Lansky and/or DMT Aligner/Magna-Guide set for a long time, and never fully realized how much difference a larger bench hone made (and I actually had the C/F 8" Duo-Sharp, which sat unused for a very long time). When I finally tried using the clamp with the bench hone, the difference in working speed was night & day; I discovered this in re-bevelling a ZDP-189 blade to a very thin angle, which previously was taking FOREVER on my Lansky diamond set.


David
 
With a good set of stones and good thin geometry no steel is hard to sharpen.

None of the steels you listed have significant alloy content and even with thick edges would not be hard to sharpen with good stones.
 
KalEl said:
With a good set of stones and good thin geometry no steel is hard to sharpen.

None of the steels you listed have significant alloy content and even with thick edges would not be hard to sharpen with good stones.
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Okay, so maybe I need to stay on the course side for longer; but for how long is the question? Should I keep it on the course side until it's comfortably cutting through paper, or will the course not get it that sharp?
 
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