Sharpening dry - Help me understand

[bpeezer]

Today, I tried something new with my sharpening process. I used my 3k stone without any water. I wasn't expecting much to be different about it, but I got a surprising result. I was able to whittle a free hanging hair after the stone. I normally have to strop lightly for at least 5 strokes each side before I can whittle hair, but this time I got it right off the stone.

I have read a couple of times that using stones without water can produce a crisper edge, but I've never seen an explanation of that. Can anyone shed some light on why this might be the case?

 

[Bladenoobie1]

When you use stones with water its possible that the abrasive slurry, even if minimal, being formed dulls the apex slightly while a dry stone as no slurry to abrade against the very tip. I personally have not use waterstones dry as they will load up quick in doing so, but this is just a guess from me.

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

For me, I used to prefer the feedback from a dry stone (diamond, SiC/AlOx/ceramics), as that seemed to help me produce crisper edges. Nothing interfering with the 'feel' between stone and steel, and that worked for me for a while. When the stone starts out clean, I do see the advantage in working dry; it'll initially be more aggressive when un-lubricated and it works very fast, until the stone starts to glaze or load up with swarf. This is the biggest downside, to me, and it usually happens rather quickly, changing the cutting character of the stone. Another aspect of dry sharpening is the steel 'dust' produced, which was sometimes an irritant for me (sinuses). This was the primary driver for me to pursue sharpening with either water or oil; mainly to keep the dust down.

After finally getting used to using water or oil on hones, I'm producing edges as good or better. And for obvious reasons, the stones aren't loading up nearly as much, and that keeps them more consistent, for longer.

I still use ceramics dry, most of the time, as I like the very quick 'bite' they add to an edge, in just a handful of passes. Obviously, I also work a little more to make sure they stay as clean as possible, between uses. For very polished bevels, though, a little mineral oil on a Fine/UF ceramic hone seems to work well with a scrubbing/circular stroke.


David

 

[HeavyHanded]

It all comes down to the individual stone, and how much work you're doing. Most waterstones will load up real fast if used with no water, likewise most oilstones will load up if not used with oil. If you're only doing a little work then it will come down to the stone. I only use sandpaper and diamond dry, occasionally a silicon carbide stone if only doing some quick work. Generally I get a much better edge if I use a lube when working on an oil stone or waterstone.

 

[bpeezer]

When you use stones with water its possible that the abrasive slurry, even if minimal, being formed dulls the apex slightly while a dry stone as no slurry to abrade against the very tip. I personally have not use waterstones dry as they will load up quick in doing so, but this is just a guess from me.

Is it possible to get similar results by sharpening under continuously running water? Would that be able to rinse away everything that is normally built up?

 

[bpeezer]

For me, I used to prefer the feedback from a dry stone (diamond, SiC/AlOx/ceramics), as that seemed to help me produce crisper edges. Nothing interfering with the 'feel' between stone and steel, and that worked for me for a while. When the stone starts out clean, I do see the advantage in working dry; it'll initially be more aggressive when un-lubricated and it works very fast, until the stone starts to glaze or load up with swarf. This is the biggest downside, to me, and it usually happens rather quickly, changing the cutting character of the stone. Another aspect of dry sharpening is the steel 'dust' produced, which was sometimes an irritant for me (sinuses). This was the primary driver for me to pursue sharpening with either water or oil; mainly to keep the dust down.

After finally getting used to using water or oil on hones, I'm producing edges as good or better. And for obvious reasons, the stones aren't loading up nearly as much, and that keeps them more consistent, for longer.

I still use ceramics dry, most of the time, as I like the very quick 'bite' they add to an edge, in just a handful of passes. Obviously, I also work a little more to make sure they stay as clean as possible, between uses. For very polished bevels, though, a little mineral oil on a Fine/UF ceramic hone seems to work well with a scrubbing/circular stroke.


David

From the sounds of it, I need to practice more with my 3k stone. I will work until I can get the same result using water. I frequently skip the 3k and just strop after the 1k, so I'm guessing I just don't have the experience I need yet.

 

[bpeezer]

It all comes down to the individual stone, and how much work you're doing. Most waterstones will load up real fast if used with no water, likewise most oilstones will load up if not used with oil. If you're only doing a little work then it will come down to the stone. I only use sandpaper and diamond dry, occasionally a silicon carbide stone if only doing some quick work. Generally I get a much better edge if I use a lube when working on an oil stone or waterstone.

I did very, very little work with it. It wasn't enough to clean up the entire bevel, but it was enough to refine the very edge. It actually left a fairly ugly bevel

 

[HeavyHanded]

From the sounds of it, I need to practice more with my 3k stone. I will work until I can get the same result using water. I frequently skip the 3k and just strop after the 1k, so I'm guessing I just don't have the experience I need yet.

Experiment with it more. Generally on waterstones I like to keep them well rinsed, a splash on the surface every dozen passes or so. Sometimes I'll allow a mud to build up but have gotten away from that especially when finishing the edge off. On polishing waterstones - 2k and up, I try to finish with edge trailing passes after removing the burr. It makes a much finer edge in my experience, but again I have to believe it depends on the stone. I have only King and Norton waterstones.