Sharpening equipment

[agile_1]

I just finished my tax returns and will be getting some decent $'s back. Enough to buy a decent sharpening system and couple nice knives. Wanted to get some feedback on sharpeners and grinding wheels vs belt sanders.

Sharpening

I have a Gatco and can get my knives sharp with some effort. I was wondering what folks suggest to make the job more efficient. Or should I just keep practicing with the Gatco? I kind of like the stones and the idea of the angle guides. The thing I dislike is the clamping system - it is not that secure. I have had knives shift position and need to be re-clamped. I have also hit the clamp with the stones when sharpening at low angles. I put a piece of rubber between the blade and the clamp to provide some friction. That helps somewhat but eventually the knife still slides around. Am I just using too much pressure?

Also - I have not run into it yet but I can see that larger knives will have to be re-clamped a couple times to sharpen the whole edge.

I also wanted to get a belt sander/wheel sander combo - probably an inexpensive one (less than $100) from Harbor Freight. That or just a grinding wheel. The idea here is to use it for coarse stock removal and edge forming. I burn a lot of wood for heat and use a maul or hand axe for splitting and need to sharpen those up as well as folders and fixed blades. I am not too picky about getting the maul and hand axes that sharp though. They just need some decent edges a couple times a year.

The knives I want to keep decently sharp. For a sharpener I am leaning towards the Apex Edge Pro for a couple reasons. It looks like it will sharpen larger knives as well as less than 3" folders. It also does not use a clamping system. But in all honesty I think I need to spend more time with the Gatco system and get a better feel for sharpening knives before investing in another sharpening system. I just think the belt sander or grinder will get me rough a lot edge faster than the coarse stones.

Thanks for any input.

 

[VR4]

I don't think the Edge Pro is that much of an improvement over the much cheaper Spyderco Sharpmaker and I don't think it's nearly as good at allowing a consistent angle as the Wicked Edge. The Wicked Edge is awfully expensive but I don't see how there's any possibility of not getting a consistent angle on it unless you don't set the arms right.

 

[T. Erdelyi]

I wish I could tell ya there was a magic system that required no learning curve and have the perfect edge with the last amount of waste but there ain't.

I've have everything from water stones and diamond hones up to an edge pro and although they all have their place there's no substitution for learnin' how to sharpen freehand but before that ya gotta learn what shall is so invest in a good light source and a good 10X or better loupe and learn what a sharp blade looks like and you'll be more likely to recognize it when ya get there.

All that said if you're hell bent on gettin' a system I hear a lot of good things about the paper wheels they seem to be quick with a low learning curve.

I have an edge pro and honestly I use it more to reprofile edges more than anything, most of my sharpening is done Freehand.

 

[gazz98]

I'm a fan of good ol sharpening stones myself. Like T said above, freehand is the way to go imo. A decent quality combo stone is good enough. I use water stones myself. I have a inexpensive combo stone from Norton. Grab a cheap leather belt from a thrift store too for stropping. I like the idea and practice of learning to do the angles myself rather then rely on a jig or guide. Feels more...manly for some reason.

Be prepared to practice on a cheap knife.

 

[Jastab]

Depends on your level of skill/confidence. I felt my free hand skills suck and I was always seeking mirror edges. I got a wicked edge pro pack 2 and its the best on the market imo. You can re profile an edge quickly and work both sides at the same time, unlike edge pro. Plus its fixed in jaws making it pretty much impossible for the blade angle to change. The edge pro, its up to you to hold it flat. Both are great systems, but I went with the one I liked. Plus they are almost out with the serration sharpener attachment!

 

[RevDevil]

I don't think the Edge Pro is that much of an improvement over the much cheaper Spyderco Sharpmaker and I don't think it's nearly as good at allowing a consistent angle as the Wicked Edge. The Wicked Edge is awfully expensive but I don't see how there's any possibility of not getting a consistent angle on it unless you don't set the arms right.

The problem with the WEPS is the same problem other "clamp" style devices have, unless you have flats on the blade, clamping the knife dead center can be an issue (FFG blades Spyderco Mlitary FFG Endura, etc). I know some folks have a work around, but it's still an issue for some. The EP is not much better, the lack of a clamp to hold the blade in place, coupled with trying to flip to the other hand can make matters complicated.

 

[blame it on god]

I have tried everything but the wicked edge. I love my Edge Pro. But I still say the most cost effective system is the lansky full kit.

 

[Jastab]

A small cloth on the blade will solve the problem of clamping ffg blades. I have absolutely no problem sharpening/clamping my spydies. But it did take a sec to figure out what to use.

 

[Big Mike]

A small belt sander and a little time spent learning to use it is the best investment you can make when it comes to powered systems.

Forget the bench grinder based systems.





Big Mike

 

[agile_1]

I don't think the Edge Pro is that much of an improvement over the much cheaper Spyderco Sharpmaker and I don't think it's nearly as good at allowing a consistent angle as the Wicked Edge. The Wicked Edge is awfully expensive but I don't see how there's any possibility of not getting a consistent angle on it unless you don't set the arms right.

Yeah I know. I don't think I am ready to make that kind of investment. In my case it probably wouldn't help me get knives any sharper.

I wish I could tell ya there was a magic system that required no learning curve and have the perfect edge with the last amount of waste but there ain't.

I've have everything from water stones and diamond hones up to an edge pro and although they all have their place there's no substitution for learnin' how to sharpen freehand but before that ya gotta learn what shall is so invest in a good light source and a good 10X or better loupe and learn what a sharp blade looks like and you'll be more likely to recognize it when ya get there.

All that said if you're hell bent on gettin' a system I hear a lot of good things about the paper wheels they seem to be quick with a low learning curve.

I have an edge pro and honestly I use it more to reprofile edges more than anything, most of my sharpening is done Freehand.

I am not at all hell bent on getting another system. Quite the opposite - I would rather spend the time learning how to use my Gatco. I do have some magnifiers but freehand is not for me right now. I am just thinking that a belt sander would help speed up the coarse stages of sharpening. I think most factory edges have pretty high angles and I try to take them down some when I sharpen.

I'm a fan of good ol sharpening stones myself. Like T said above, freehand is the way to go imo. A decent quality combo stone is good enough. I use water stones myself. I have a inexpensive combo stone from Norton. Grab a cheap leather belt from a thrift store too for stropping. I like the idea and practice of learning to do the angles myself rather then rely on a jig or guide. Feels more...manly for some reason.

Be prepared to practice on a cheap knife.

The Gatco system is enough of a challenge right now. Freehand is kind of intimidating. I have been practicing on several inexpensive knives, mostly 440C steel which I find kind of hard to sharpen. Just ordered an Opinel No. 7 with an Inox blade.

Depends on your level of skill/confidence. I felt my free hand skills suck and I was always seeking mirror edges. I got a wicked edge pro pack 2 and its the best on the market imo. You can re profile an edge quickly and work both sides at the same time, unlike edge pro. Plus its fixed in jaws making it pretty much impossible for the blade angle to change. The edge pro, its up to you to hold it flat. Both are great systems, but I went with the one I liked. Plus they are almost out with the serration sharpener attachment!

Mirror finishes are beyond me right now. Possibly in the distant future. Still sizing up the various systems but I find the clamping mechanism the weakest part of the design, at least in my Gatco.

The problem with the WEPS is the same problem other "clamp" style devices have, unless you have flats on the blade, clamping the knife dead center can be an issue (FFG blades Spyderco Mlitary FFG Endura, etc). I know some folks have a work around, but it's still an issue for some. The EP is not much better, the lack of a clamp to hold the blade in place, coupled with trying to flip to the other hand can make matters complicated.

I agree. Not sure the best way to get around that but I have been using thin rubber that partially wraps around the blade. Not perfect but helps some. Someone else on the thread mentions using cloth. Again, the clamp is the weakest part of the system and I think I press too hard at times. That knocks the blade loose.

I have tried everything but the wicked edge. I love my Edge Pro. But I still say the most cost effective system is the lansky full kit.

I initially considered the Lansky but went with the Gatco because of the wider stones. Not sure if it is really any advantage over the thinner Lansky type stones.

A small cloth on the blade will solve the problem of clamping ffg blades. I have absolutely no problem sharpening/clamping my spydies. But it did take a sec to figure out what to use.

I will try cloth around the blade instead of rubber. I do think I get carried away and press to hard and knock the blade loose though.

A small belt sander and a little time spent learning to use it is the best investment you can make when it comes to powered systems.

Forget the bench grinder based systems.

Big Mike

That's kind of the impression I get from the knifemaker forum Mike. A lot of talk about belt sanders and not much mention of grinding wheels. Some folks talk about Dremmel tools. Basically I am interested in coarse removal on my knives and sharpening my maul and hand axe on the belt sander.

Thanks for the input folks. Like I mentioned, still practicing with the Gatco. Mostly 440C steels and some mystery steels. I can get a knife sharp, at least as sharp as most factory edges I have seen - able to cut paper but just barely able to shave arm hair. More practice on different steels is in order.

 

[OHALLUM]

If you will back off of the pressure you are putting on the Gatco stones, and let the stones do the work slowly, most of your problems will work themselves out. If you are using the diamond hones, use very light pressure or you will ruin the hones. The diamond hones are very aggressive and need almost no pressure to work effectively. What you have is a very good system if used correctly. Most people apply to much pressure to try to hurry up, when not much more pressure than the weight of the stones is ample. 3 words to close: Practice, Practice, Practice. You will get there.

Blessings,

Omar

 

[PERRO]

Hey everyone,

I've tried, but cant' get the hang of free-hand sharpening a knife on any stones. So, I picked up a " Spyderco V Sharpener " , Lansky ..with mixed results. I recently saw a review on " U - Tube ", of the " KME Sharpener " ( Dean O ) .. and bought one; " It's the best one so far. I can now put a razors edge.. on most knives, that will fit within the clamps.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZQWhTGkb5c

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Mtz0aNJBCY

I picked the " Diamond Stones " , along with a few extra ones : Ex - course Diamond & extra fine white honing stone. I also ordered a few leather strops, cut specifically to fit the " KME Sharpener ".
http://www.stropman.com

Just my two cents.

 

[mrdeus]

I don't think the Edge Pro is that much of an improvement over the much cheaper Spyderco Sharpmaker

It might not seem like it until you try to reprofile a blade on the sharpmaker. Hours turn to minutes. Now I use freehand water stones, but I still use the Edge Pro for setting an edge on my more expensive folders.

 

[agile_1]

Hey everyone,

I've tried, but cant' get the hang of free-hand sharpening a knife on any stones. So, I picked up a " Spyderco V Sharpener " , Lansky ..with mixed results. I recently saw a review on " U - Tube ", of the " KME Sharpener " ( Dean O ) .. and bought one; " It's the best one so far. I can now put a razors edge.. on most knives, that will fit within the clamps.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZQWhTGkb5c

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Mtz0aNJBCY

I picked the " Diamond Stones " , along with a few extra ones : Ex - course Diamond & extra fine white honing stone. I also ordered a few leather strops, cut specifically to fit the " KME Sharpener ".
http://www.stropman.com

Just my two cents.

The KME is interesting. Some nice features. I like the continuous angle adjustment and the nylon bearing rod alignment. Also the fact that you can use any stone system you want. Still leery of blade clamping systems, but between Lansky, Gatco and KME it looks like KME has a better feature set.

 

[cbwx34]

I've had better results using a thin piece of leather (I cut mine from an old work glove, others use a piece of chamois), then I did rubber for holding a knife in a clamp... you may want to give that a try.

 

[blame it on god]

I initially considered the Lansky but went with the Gatco because of the wider stones. Not sure if it is really any advantage over the thinner Lansky type stones.

Re-curve blades are the only real advantage. And I like the clamp better. I ALWAYS use blue painters tape on any system I am using. No matter how cheap or crappy the knife is.


EDIT: The only way you will ever catch me using any powered devise is if I'm fixing a damaged blade for someone. I am the knife sharpener for family, friends and coworkers. It really makes me want to slap people sometimes.

 

[PERRO]

I've done all of my kithcen & utility knives..The only issue with the clamping sytsem, is with centerinng , very thick blades ( Spine or Back ) ; I.E. Meat Cleaver, and with double edge blades , as they taper (Daggers) toward the cutting edge. It's very difficult to clamp down on corretly, which keeps the blade centerd, at a consistent angle, on both sides.

Just my two cents.

 

[OHALLUM]

You are missing out on some great sharpening equipment. By hand with one of the guided systems is great, but so are some of the powered systems. Ex: paper wheels, WSKT, and other abrasive belt systems. Most manufacturers use a powered belt system or a grinding wheel of some sort. I just bought a new Buck knife that would shave arm hair right out of the box, and I doubt it was manually sharpened with a guided WE or such device.

I am certainly not bashing those devices, as I have a KME system on my wish list to use on some friends knives that are really particular about their edge bevels being "perfect". I can get them near perfect and hair popping sharp on my paper wheels, but "near perfect" is not near enough for them. So, there is room for all types of sharpeners out there, and we all have our preferences, but the bottom line is a sharp knife. Of course "SHARP" means different things to each of us. It was just your blanket statement that I had to address.

Blessings,

Omar

 

[blame it on god]

I had my eye on the KME system while I was trying to decide what system I wanted to add to my sharpening capabilities. The lansky IMO pretty much sucks for large, or large flat ground blades.

I got the Edge Pro because I know me. I am ambidextrous so switching hands was no problem. And I am accident prone! So having a blade clamped the way the KME does would mean a trip to the hospital for me. LOL

And trust me, I know most factory knives are sharpened by some belt or grinder system by hand. And it truly does AMAZE me that people people can do that for 8 hours a day and turn out sharp knives. I've bought MANY production knives that were shaving sharp out of the box, but not perfect. As a matter of fact, I got three new knives in the mail today. All of them are shaving sharp. The one I am most impressed by is the ESEE IZULA 2. Super sharp and by my eye near perfectly even and centered. I also got a ZT0560, Again very sharp and pretty well centered. The third is DPx Gear HEST II Assault. It's shaving sharp, but I am going to end up spending some quality time centering it. (my first experience with sleipnel at that.)

I am the same as some of your friends. I want perfect, I've got the angle cube and I make guides out of phenolic resin sheet so my tracking is perfect. I am a machinist by trade. I live by fixtures, guides and vises.

Trying not to be too long winded here, But I buy from many MANY different manufacturers. They are all guilty. Sharp, but not perfect.

 

[OHALLUM]

Maybe you should change your forum name to "Blame it on OCD"! Just kidding, but in a good way. Nothing wrong with striving for that "perfect" blade sharpening job. I see that your vocation requires perfection, so it is only right that you carry that over to your hobby. I too, strive for perfection, but only as far as my finances and my skill set allows. My perfection is improving with each sharpening job, as that is my hobby. Collecting knives is just a necessary part of that hobby.

I agree with you about the job the MFGS do with their sharpening jobs. Some are fair, some are good, and some, .....give you a challenge to try to salvage as much steel as you can without grinding away 10 years worth of metal to get it sharp and even. All part of the fun of this hobby. Great post, and have a blessed day.

Blessings,

Omar