Sharpening for cutting or slicing? There's a difference, you know.

[fireincairo]

And this guy, who can probably whip up some nice vittles if need be, has some great advice on how to sharpen knives with rod style sharpeners you would find in a chef's kitchen:

[video=youtube;Teh0Cw84QGQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Teh0Cw84QGQ[/video]

 

[Dontheo]

I love this guy and his sharpening skills. Talks practical and not down at you. I never tried his recipes but saw one the other day and it sounds like a good 4th weekend project.

 

[Jason B.]

Lol, this guys advice needs to be taken with a grain of salt...

 

[Rhinoknives1]

A Butchers Steel, The metal kind with the file like grooves on it, that's been around for many years, will only lightly sharpen older European style Carbon steel knives, They don't remove enough metal of stainless steel knives to really sharpened them and do a crude job of honing them as well.

 

[fireincairo]

A Butchers Steel, The metal kind with the file like grooves on it, that's been around for many years, will only lightly sharpen older European style Carbon steel knives, They don't remove enough metal of stainless steel knives to really sharpened them and do a crude job of honing them as well.

Interesting, thanks for pointing that out.

 

[Spartan00]

I dunno about the steel video. Richard Blaine and Jason B. Are the reasons I bought dmts though . Back when Jason was knifenut he posted a image of splitting hairs off a dMt xxf after that I found Richards videos with his dmts and I've been using them ever since .

I do disagree with some things he does though , first going from spyderco UF to Arkansas is a step backward IMO and some of his other techniques I don't agree with ,but his videos on diamonds are pretty accurate .

 

[bucketstove]

Hi,
There is no difference , slicing is cutting
slice: To cut into slices.
slice: To cut with an edge utilizing a drawing motion.
You're thinking of "chopping"

 

[singularity35]

Hi,
There is no difference , slicing is cutting
slice: To cut into slices.
slice: To cut with an edge utilizing a drawing motion.
You're thinking of "chopping"

There's a difference between pushcutting and cutting with a forward or backward motion. For example, shaving is pushcutting, only motion perpendicular to the edge. Slicing as referred to here, is a cut with some motion parallel to the edge.

 

[bucketstove]

There's a difference between pushcutting and cutting with a forward or backward motion. For example, shaving is pushcutting, only motion perpendicular to the edge. Slicing as referred to here, is a cut with some motion parallel to the edge.

Hi,
Where is the push in Sharpening for cutting or slicing? There's a difference, you know. ?

 

[HeavyHanded]

All of the steels he's using remove metal.

The grooved steel can actually do a lot of work if the target steel is low enough RC. On Western cutlery this can run as low as the high 40s RC.

If the edge is heavily used one has to apply more force to get the steel to start cutting - like a regular file it will skate at first till it gains some purchase. However once it does cut a new edge it has a real tough time cleanly removing the burr. Not the best tool for heavy work or work on higher RC knives.

I didn't watch any of the other videos - his technique is pretty good on the steels though even if some of the info is a bit inaccurate.

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

All of the steels he's using remove metal.

The grooved steel can actually do a lot of work if the target steel is low enough RC. On Western cutlery this can run as low as the high 40s RC.

If the edge is heavily used one has to apply more force to get the steel to start cutting - like a regular file it will skate at first till it gains some purchase. However once it does cut a new edge it has a real tough time cleanly removing the burr. Not the best tool for heavy work or work on higher RC knives.

I didn't watch any of the other videos - his technique is pretty good on the steels though even if some of the info is a bit inaccurate.

That's the same conclusion I came to. Didn't really agree with his characterization of steels not removing metal, as the particular examples he demo'd all will do it to varying degrees. I was encouraged to see his techique with the steel seems to mirror what I've come to use with them, with a slower, lighter and more deliberate pass along the steel, as opposed to the heavy grinding and 'sword fighting', between steel and blade, that's seen in the hands of so many other 'professional' chefs in the kitchen; it makes me cringe every time I see it.

I also don't understand his distinction between 'cut' and 'slice', which just seems to describe what most of us view as 'push cut' vs 'draw cut' (or slice). Slicing is cutting, and cutting is (sometimes) slicing.


David

 

[David Martin]

Yes, agreed the grooved rods will remove some metal. The diamond coated ones more so. When I see meat cutters Slapping their knife against the steel rod, it makes me cringe too. I have to walk away. It can't be improving the knife's edge. DM

 

[Czechmate]

Yes, agreed the grooved rods will remove some metal. The diamond coated ones more so. When I see meat cutters Slapping their knife against the steel rod, it makes me cringe too. I have to walk away. It can't be improving the knife's edge. DM

I should post some pic of the old AG Cutlery (circa 1947) kitchen knives I received as a gift. Half of the blades would be considered ruined by most knife aficionados due to excessive recurves and worn blades due to poor sharpenings they received on grooved sharpening steels.

A sharpening "steel" will never touch my knives... Fine ceramic rods for light touch ups; sure, not an issue. People need to learn how to sharpen SMDH.

 

[David Martin]

Good thought to follow. DM

 

[lonestar1979]

spyderco sharpmaker ceramics giveS you nice choices ,for aggressive slicing,use brown rods,for more pusH cutting white ones with light pressure.One of the handiest touchup setups on market!

 

[HeavyHanded]

Just came back from a small vacation at a cottage. As usual the only knives that had any good edge were all of the Ginsu serrated variety. I've been here before, so looked around for the Kitchen Aid Chef's pattern I sharpened up last year and the grooved steel.

Rested the grooved steel flat on the counter and using a fair amount of pressure I worked the edge till the glaze was worked off, switching sides every few passes. Once I felt the teeth start cutting I stopped and inspected every couple passes, and let way up on the pressure.

Pushed burr to one side, a few high angle swipes flip, repeat, a few at original angle. Shaving arm hair and slicing tomato nice and thin without it deforming.

I'm sure there's a bit of burr left, I only inspected enough to see the whole thing wasn't a burr. A huge improvement and a better choice in this case than the ancient pull through that was sitting next to the grooved steel.

Just a thought, if the steel is low RC, these tools work fine as long as you understand what's happening and keep the expectations reasonable.

 

[AusLoX]

The main purpose of the steel is to stand up a rolled edge. Doesn't really sharpen the knife.

 

[HeavyHanded]

The main purpose of the steel is to stand up a rolled edge. Doesn't really sharpen the knife.

For a smooth steel that would be mostly correct. The edges really don't roll that often in my experience. They get dull, the smooth steel refines the edge through plastic deformation. Once they get that treatment a handful of times they just become drawn out and need something to remove some steel. It helps for the edge to have a bunch of grind path texture to it, so the high points have somewhere to smear. When they no longer have anywhere to smear to, it get mushed out along the edge.

A grooved steel does removes metal, works exactly like a fine file. If you use one on a smoothed out edge bevel you will see a new grind pattern forming - removing material and cutting a new edge. It has trouble removing the burr cleanly, but a regular file does as well. It can, just takes a bit of finagling. For a heavy used knife in a kitchen environment, it really doesn't matter if a bit of burr is left.

On the upside, these tools are not prone to bacterial issues and very handy to keep around. I used to use grooved and smooth steels in tandem to keep up on my kitchen knives for years. Also used them on my grass hook and corn knife.

 

[AusLoX]

For a smooth steel that would be mostly correct. The edges really don't roll that often in my experience. They get dull, the smooth steel refines the edge through plastic deformation. Once they get that treatment a handful of times they just become drawn out and need something to remove some steel. It helps for the edge to have a bunch of grind path texture to it, so the high points have somewhere to smear. When they no longer have anywhere to smear to, it get mushed out along the edge.

A grooved steel does removes metal, works exactly like a fine file. If you use one on a smoothed out edge bevel you will see a new grind pattern forming - removing material and cutting a new edge. It has trouble removing the burr cleanly, but a regular file does as well. It can, just takes a bit of finagling. For a heavy used knife in a kitchen environment, it really doesn't matter if a bit of burr is left.

On the upside, these tools are not prone to bacterial issues and very handy to keep around. I used to use grooved and smooth steels in tandem to keep up on my kitchen knives for years. Also used them on my grass hook and corn knife.

Edges roll a lot on certain steels. The steel is usually all it takes to stand it back up. Over time this process will make the edge weak and then will require it to be sharpened. You can save a blades life by using a steel instead of sharpening it. We do this a lot at the shop for customers and I usually don't see them for a couple months. Saves them money and time.

 

[HeavyHanded]

Edges roll a lot on certain steels. The steel is usually all it takes to stand it back up. Over time this process will make the edge weak and then will require it to be sharpened. You can save a blades life by using a steel instead of sharpening it. We do this a lot at the shop for customers and I usually don't see them for a couple months. Saves them money and time.

Agreed, you can save a lot of life on an edge using even a grooved steel and more so a smooth one. One can also do horrible damage with a grooved one, but that's true for many sharpening tools. Its overlooked by many, but on low RC steel it works very well. I've even used it on higher RC steel, but becomes real unforgiving of off swipes. I find I get faster and more reliable results using other means. In the average kitchen or on many less exotic steel types should not be discounted - actually makes a better edge than other means in some cases.