Sharpening issues that I'm not sure of!

L

liam2

Joined
Mar 14, 2023
Messages
6
So to start I want to admit I jumped headfirst into buying knives as another kind of way to fill a hole I have in my life, it didn't work but I really like the knives I have and want to sharpen them, I have two I want to sharpen that are currently giving me trouble, again I am new to this so while it may seem obvious to some all of this is new to me so forgive me if I seem to have jumped the gun.

the two knives in question are a ZT 0308 and a benchmade freek with M4, I only have the 5 stone version of the lansky sharpening system and its making me feel terrible I can't get these knives sharp, I have two d2 blades that feel they could cut my finger off at any point and they came that sharp, I'm curious if I'm simply using the system wrong or I'm using the wrong things, as my only other way of sharpening is paying someone else to do it and here where I live very few people sharpen these kinds of knives its mainly kitchen knives
 
Use a sharpie to color the edge bevel to ensure your cutting all the way to the apex.

Start with a low grit, and make sure the knife is sharp before moving to a higher one.

It can take some time, so go slow. Wouldn't hurt to tape the blade as well so you don't scratch the primary bevel sides.
 
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I think he means “tape the blade”…

If those were my only two knives and I really liked them, I’d get ahold of a few yard sale/thrift store paring knives to practice on. No use wearing out your good knives while you’re learning. With cheap knives you can experiment all kinds of ways without worrying if they’re wrong.

I believe there are members on this subforum who would sharpen your knives quite affordably if you wanted to ship them, but that has its own set of risks and issues.

Parker
 
If you have the ceramic version of the Lansky stones, you may struggle with steels like M4. The ZT is 20CV as well isn't it? They are both high carbide steels that would probably benefit from using diamonds or CBN or similar(if you have ceramic), although the coarse stones should still be able handle them OK. Maybe spend a little more time on the coarsest stone.

Also, are you raising a burr and more importantly deburring properly? Those two things can be pretty important for getting a good edge.
 
What lansky stones are are you using? The diamond stones are the best option, they will cut the fastest.

Even with a guided sharpener I feel like I needed to learn the fundamentals of sharpening to really get my edges where I wanted them. I freehand more often now but still use my lansky once in a while.

Can you explain what problems you’re having?
 
chalby said:
If you have the ceramic version of the Lansky stones, you may struggle with steels like M4. The ZT is 20CV as well isn't it? They are both high carbide steels that would probably benefit from using diamonds or CBN or similar(if you have ceramic), although the coarse stones should still be able handle them OK. Maybe spend a little more time on the coarsest stone.

Also, are you raising a burr and more importantly deburring properly? Those two things can be pretty important for getting a good edge.
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I believe the 5 stone kit is ceramic and agree that is likely at least part of the issue.
I'd suggest picking up some of the diamond hones from lansky and then using a marker to color the bevel and make sure you are getting the apex of the edge when sharpening.

sharpening isn't complicated once you get it, but it seems for many, including myself, it takes some time to figure it out.
 
If the Lansky set includes only the standard hones in aluminum oxide (including two ceramic finishing hones), they'll not work well with high-wear steels. I ruined two of my stones in a Lansky set on a ZT-0300 in S30V, after about SIX HOURS of grinding on that one without being able to apex it. The two coarsest stones ended up dished and glazed after starting that job in nearly-new condition. A lot of that issue also related to the very thick edge grind on that blade, which required removing a LOT of steel to reprofile with the very small & inadequate stones. D2 could also be challenging for the same reasons. I did end up finishing that job with a medium diamond Lansky hone which I thankfully had on hand at the time. That took another hour or two, but it did definitively get the job done.

First thing I'd do, is invest in a couple of Lansky's diamond hones including an XC at least, or their complete diamond set. That's what I did, after learning the lesson above.
 
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catspa said:
I think he means “tape the blade”…

If those were my only two knives and I really liked them, I’d get ahold of a few yard sale/thrift store paring knives to practice on. No use wearing out your good knives while you’re learning. With cheap knives you can experiment all kinds of ways without worrying if they’re wrong.

I believe there are members on this subforum who would sharpen your knives quite affordably if you wanted to ship them, but that has its own set of risks and issues.

Parker
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They're already kind of dull, Like the slice paper but there is some times where it doesn't grab or slice if you know what I mean, the m4 benchmade is weird it will sometimes slice then sometimes not on the exact same area of the blade, also I'm in the UK which makes it a lot harder for finding sharpeners, not many people use these types of knives here, I have a cold steel crawford model 1 thats sharp and was thinking of using it till it dulls then try to work it, I'm also not sure if I need diamond stones or not. Thank you for the information though as a beginner its nice to see I'm not getting any negatives off people for buying " the wrong first knife"
 
After reading more of the replys I think I need to get the diamond stones to try first, I really want to stick with sharpening myself though as I want to learn this skill myself thank you all for your help, the main issues is that I seem to get nowhere with sharpening probably thanks to not having diamond, also being a beginner I'm kind of dumb to how long it takes to sharpen a knife I thought it took a lot less time than it actually does, although all the sharpening guides I watch use diamond stones so as I say I think thats going to be my first approach, I think thats my main issue and also thinking that I would just be able to whip up a razor sharp edge in 10 minutes like the youtube vids show, thank you all for your advice, I was really worried like with airsoft that I'd get flamed because I bought expensive knives first, (Part of the reason I bought the zt 0308 was I was a big fan of ncis and the gibbs knife but I couldn't get that exact model)
 
Obsessed with Edges said:
If the Lansky set includes only the standard hones in aluminum oxide (including two ceramic finishing hones), they'll not work well with high-wear steels. I ruined two of my stones in a Lansky set on a ZT-0300 in S30V, after about SIX HOURS of grinding on that one without being able to apex it. The two coarsest stones ended up dished and glazed after starting that job in nearly-new condition. A lot of that issue also related to the very thick edge grind on that blade, which required removing a LOT of steel to reprofile with the very small & inadequate stones. D2 could also be challenging for the same reasons. I did end up finishing that job with a medium diamond Lansky hone which I thankfully had on hand at the time. That took another hour or two, but it did definitively get the job done.

First thing I'd do, is invest in a couple of Lansky's diamond hones including an XC at least, or their complete diamond set. That's what I did, after learning the lesson above.
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Thank you for the advice and showing me that it isn't just a five minute job, once I can afford them I will get a diamond full set, would you recommend the sappire 2000 grit stone for finishing touches??
 
It might also help you learn by getting a couple cheaper knives in more basic steels to practice on first. The M4 and even D2 can be more difficult steels to try to learn on. Even take a cheap kitchen knife and practice on it may give you some insights to help you along.

It's good to stick with it, it's a good skill to have.
 
JJ_Colt45 said:
It might also help you learn by getting a couple cheaper knives in more basic steels to practice on first. The M4 and even D2 can be more difficult steels to try to learn on. Even take a cheap kitchen knife and practice on it may give you some insights to help you along.

It's good to stick with it, it's a good skill to have.
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thanks for your advice, I'm thinking of using my cold steel crawford model 1 till it dulls and try sharpen it, i will also buy the diamond hones as they seem to be much better, really means a lot people are willing to help :)
 
liam2 said:
Thank you for the advice and showing me that it isn't just a five minute job, once I can afford them I will get a diamond full set, would you recommend the sappire 2000 grit stone for finishing touches??
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Start with the basic diamond set - coarse, medium, and fine. That's around 120, 300 and 600 grit, and it will give you a nasty sharp edge on the hardest steels. You can strop on leather / denim / cardboard to remove the burr.
 
If you're serious about learning to sharpen, set yourself a time slot of a few hours, grab several sheets of printer paper, and load up a selection of your favorite music and podcasts. Now deliberately dull your Cold Steel and/or other practice knives by lightly drawing the edge perpendicularly against the stone one time. It will dull slightly. Now reestablish the apex. Now dull it again, this time with two passes against the stone. Reestablish the apex again. You know the apex is continuous when you can slice printer paper cleanly without any snags anywhere along the edge. Keep going, each time making the knife duller, then reestablishing an apex. Each time, closely examine the blade, under a good light source. Take note of how the edge deflects light when it is dull, and how it does not when the apex is crisp. Spend some time with this, and you will accelerate the development of your sharpening awareness and muscle memory.
 
David Mary said:
If you're serious about learning to sharpen, set yourself a time slot of a few hours, grab several sheets of printer paper, and load up a selection of your favorite music and podcasts. Now deliberately dull your Cold Steel and/or other practice knives by lightly drawing the edge perpendicularly against the stone one time. It will dull slightly. Now reestablish the apex. Now dull it again, this time with two passes against the stone. Reestablish the apex again. You know the apex is continuous when you can slice printer paper cleanly without any snags anywhere along the edge. Keep going, each time making the knife duller, then reestablishing an apex. Each time, closely examine the blade, under a good light source. Take note of how the edge deflects light when it is dull, and how it does not when the apex is crisp. Spend some time with this, and you will accelerate the development of your sharpening awareness and muscle memory.
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thank you very much, I shall try this and learn, as I say this is a skill I really do want to develop :)
 
The time it takes depends A LOT on two things:

1. Whether or not you stick to the existing edge angle. If you match the existing edge angle (use the Sharpie trick) or choose an even higher angle, things should go pretty quickly. If, on the other hand, you lower the edge angle, it can take quite a while to reach the edge apex, especially with "super steels," and that applies even if you're using diamonds.


2. The width of the edge bevel. The wider the bevel is, the more material you have to remove in order to reach the apex. And because more of the stone is in contact with the bevel, the pressure you apply is spread out over a bigger area.
 
Both good points. These are why I am an advocate of blades being very thin behind the edge, not just for better cutting performance, but also for greater ease of sharpening, and more sharpenings before the edge becomes too obtuse and in need of a regrind.
 
David Mary said:
Both good points. These are why I am an advocate of blades being very thin behind the edge, not just for better cutting performance, but also for greater ease of sharpening, and more sharpenings before the edge becomes too obtuse and in need of a regrind.
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Yes, Sir, you are preaching to the choir. :)
 
liam2 said:
Thank you for the advice and showing me that it isn't just a five minute job, once I can afford them I will get a diamond full set, would you recommend the sappire 2000 grit stone for finishing touches??
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That sapphire stone is the one hone I haven't tried. But the other two finishing ceramics (600 & 1000) have both been pretty good. If you're looking for more polish beyond the 1000, then I'd see no reason not to try the sapphire.
 
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