Sharpening Krupp 4116 8steel from Cold Steel

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lonestar1979

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Mar 2, 2014
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I have couple of waterstones,and theyre not flat,and i usually use sil carbide oil stones or belt sander,and worked up to the burr,but had a hard time getting rid of it ,it was razor sharp at the end but i struggled for half an hour trying to get rid of it.Is this mostly because this steel is little softer,and is by nature gummy,thats how it feels or it is the waterstones that arent flat and maybe my technique.Ive been sharpening for 30 years and usually get any knife razor sharp with norton stones or dmt.These waterstones are cheap,do not know the brands,and theyre cutting slowly.1000 and 4000grit.Any input welcome!
 
The CS 4116 is gummy steel. Use a waterstone with a good slurry on it and that'll help eliminate the burr, as the loose grit plowing into the edge cuts it off. Then lightly apex it on a hard stone.
 
That steel is roughly equivalent to 420HC or the stainless steels used in many kitchen knives. If your stones are cutting 'slowly' as you mentioned, with even this steel, there might be issues with the stones being clogged (such stainless can do this easily). If that's an issue, the burring issues with this steel will be even worse. It is possible, with poor-quality 'cheap' stones especially, that they may never cut very well, or they'll clog or glaze too easily. That will compound any other issues that might arise.

Stones that are clean, i.e., not clogged, will always do better with these steels. And a very light touch for finishing work will also help to minimize burring issues. To further minimize clogging, make sure the stones stays lubricated. Oil will do better with that, than water will, assuming the stones can be used with oil. For a frame of reference, I've liked using a good quality aluminum oxide oilstone with steels like this, like a Norton India (finishing at their 'Fine' grit).
 
I got it razor sharp,but after some struggle.I am not planing to spend more money on expens8ve waterstones,and would rather buy dmt stones instead and love how they perform.Will stick with oil stones like norton economy and india,never had problems with them on any steel.Btw i sharpened my buck 110 and mercator stainless the other day and theyre in 420hc,they didnt feel this gummy,and gor hair whittling edge with folding coarse dmt stone.Krupp 4116 en my kudu and these waterstones felt really weird,but now is hair whittling.I gave it few strokes on sharpmaker just with weight of knife,and whittles hair....will see how long this thing holds edge,i reground the blade on belt sander first(whole blade) as the factory grind was too thick and didnt have cutting edge almost.Will use this as beater,and also mostly food prep when im on road.Will be in S.America for 6 weeks again and it will be my main blade along with victorinox sak.The m9st useful knife ive found is that Sak :).Easiest to sharpen out of all knives i have,and holds edge for decent amount of time(alpineer locking sak with corkscrew)
 
The burring issues with 420HC can vary a lot, based on heat-treated hardness of the steel. Buck's 420HC is treated harder than most kitchen cutlery in similar steel, and it makes burr cleanup on the Buck quite a bit easier. So, you will see some different behavior with steels like these, based on how the mfr treats it.

Diamond hones can work quite well with these, used with a very, very light touch. I've really liked using a Fine or EF DMT on Victorinox's stainless (in the same makeup ballpark), for example. Just need to make sure the touch is featherlight in the finishing passes.
 
lonestar1979 said:
Guess krupp is lower on rc
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Most mfrs treat steels like this to ~ mid-50s HRC (Victorinox @ ~ 56 or so, Case's stainless @ 55-57, for example). Buck treats theirs to around ~ 58 HRC, give or take. That may seem like a small difference, but it makes burrs just a little more brittle and less 'gummy', which means they'll break away more easily in cleaning up the edge. The difference is VERY noticeable in comparing a Buck to something treated at/below HRC 56-57, like the Vic or Case knives. All are capable of taking very fine, shaving edges; but the slightly harder ones need less TLC in cleaning them up.
 
Victorinox,along with opinels in 12c27 and helle laminated stainless for some reason take screaming sharp edge most easily and are easiest to sharpen.Opinels with carbon take sharp edge too,but they l8se that toothyness in edge when cutting rather easily.
 
Ps.i have buck vantage in 13c26 and it is also very good steel.Wish Buck made 110 in this steel,and also in 440c that they used to make.sandvik steels are very good in my opinion,and am also looking to buy knife in AEBL ,read a lot about screaming sharp edge it takes and holds for decent amount of time,is easy to sharpen and retains that toothy edge at higher polish.Sandvik steel has that bite at any polish,and keeps it.I love opinel knives,stainless ones,some carbon and stainless steels do not have and do not keep that bite to cut fibrous materials unless you use very coarse finish and even thwn lose it quickley.
 
Little trick on 1.4116 steel from my Cold Steel and Kai Luna knives after you sharpen increase the ange and strop on a piece of paper for a few swipes.

I'm not too ocd on sharpness anymore so the goal is cleanly slices phone book or receipt paper and I call it good even if I'm leaving some sharpness on the table their all users.

I use a mix of diamond and ceramic stones with the occasional strop thrown in.
 
I havr only one knife in that steel,cold steel kudu,but have couple of their paring and kitchen knives on order.Its not bad steel,and not so hard to sharpen,will just use something else instead of waterstones that i have,probabky belt sander.Taking burr off with sharpmaker works well for me,as theyre flat and just use lught touch.
 
I have the cold steel Canadian Belt Knife. With the factory egde I cut about 10 yards of heavy leather until it slowed down, then I’d strop it back into sharpness to cut a few yards more a few more times. After the project, I took it to a few passes each on a soft/hard black Arkansas bench stone and it is scalpel/ razor sharp again. Easy to put a ridiculous egde, retaining that edge is the challenge, imo.
 
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I just got a Roach Belly and have had the Canadian Belt knife for a few months and I am liking 4116 steel more than I thought.
The burr can be annoying but I go with a muddy water stone like the 400 Super Stone or 800 King then apex with a translucent Arkansas or fine Spyderco rod and that keeps the burr to a minimum and the steel takes a very fine edge.

After a few sharpenings the burr does get less gummy and easier to work.
 
Obsessed with Edges said:
The burring issues with 420HC can vary a lot, based on heat-treated hardness of the steel. Buck's 420HC is treated harder than most kitchen cutlery in similar steel, and it makes burr cleanup on the Buck quite a bit easier. So, you will see some different behavior with steels like these, based on how the mfr treats it.

Diamond hones can work quite well with these, used with a very, very light touch. I've really liked using a Fine or EF DMT on Victorinox's stainless (in the same makeup ballpark), for example. Just need to make sure the touch is featherlight in the finishing passes.
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I use an extra fine DMT credit card sharpener by holding the knife still and using LIGHT circular motions, which works amazingly well, on these "softer" stainlesses.... :thumbsup::p
 
My cold steel Canadian Belt Knife is the sharpest knife I've ever received. My opinel no.6 stainless is comparable, after a stropping.

The opinel is THIN and the belt knife uses a hollow grind, to also achieve a thin edge. A stainless Mora sandvik uses a scandi grind to also present a thin edge, to make it slice well / bite hard.

I recently got some new 4116 dive knives for freediving / spearfishing.

They are 4mm thick, 3.5" long and recurved with what I'll call a "double sabre grind", so the edge is anything but thin.

I used a WorkSharp belt sander to put a nice convex bevel on it and while it is not a lazer beam, receipt-paper slicer (what's a phone book!?!?!?:eek:o_O) it's an amazing robust and sharp edge that appears that it will hold up really well to penetrating fish skulls and other hard, scaly gutting and rope-cutting duties.


Yeah... It's so corrosion resistant that they make dive knives out of it!!!

I even use a Mora 12c27 for dive purposes (though I need to rinse and dry these properly) and my preferred spear shafts are also Sandvik steel (but have been unable to determine which alloy... But ZERO rust!)

These "lower end, fine grained" stainless steels are pretty awesome! :thumbsup:
 
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