Sharpening Newbie in Need of Advice

C

CoGraphic

Joined
Sep 11, 2015
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88
I have always had an interest in sharping my knives, so i went out and bought myself a whetstone. It was at a run down place and they did not know the grit but i bought it anyways. I jumped right in and started to sharpen and a few blades I sharpened enough to cut my hair. This stone i would say is around 800 grit, when sharpening with it, i got a lot of slurry so I kinda wanted something else to try. I bought the Shapton Tradition set of 320, 1k and 5k alone with a diasharp extra coarse to flatten them. Once i got them i tried them out after sharpening and i found myself with my blades not sharp at all. I have look up multiple different videos/threads to see what i am doing wrong but not sure. I can spend an hour and a half on the 320 and another hour and a half on the 1k stone and i cant seem to get it sharp enough to slice paper easily. I noticed i cannot get a decent burr, if i ever do have one it is extremely small. So my question is, what am i doing wrong not being able to get a burr as well as any other tips that you guys could offer, it'd be much appreciated! Also, i am trying to sharpen my angle around 17-20 and i use a sharpie to mark my edges to make sure i am at the right angle which i am, all the sharpie is coming off.

Thank you for your advice!
 
I'm sure you're tired of YouTube videos, but if you look up "Kramer sharpening" and watch the one that's 11:10 long, it will offer some tips that you may find useful. It's geared towards kitchen knives, but I found it quite informative.

I'm not an expert and I don't have any groundbreaking or original tips to offer you, the video helped me, hopefully it will help you too.
 
CoG,

First, slow down. Free hand sharpening is a technique that is learned over time.
Second, know your steel and stones, different steels will feel different on different stones.
Third, you need to be extremely consistent. A millimeter difference in height at the spine
changes the cutting angle drastically.
A tip, start with a finer stone first and see how it cuts, you can always go coarser.
Tip, some steels aren't worth the time, buy knives that tell you the type
of blade steel.
Tip, get rid of that extra coarse diamond stone - put it away or sell it - it's only
good for damaged machetes and axes used for grubbing out camp sites.

I can see why ( and you probably see also) no one else has respond to your post.
The subject is broad and deep and mine is only one opinion.

Last two tips -
Practice, Practice.....Practice!
If at all possible - find a mentor.
I doubt that less than 10% of freehanders are self taught - fathers,
uncles, bosses etc. my dad was my mentor and my great uncle was
his.

I hope for the best, good luck!

Steve-O
 
Bandaids or stitches said:
I'm sure you're tired of YouTube videos, but if you look up "Kramer sharpening" and watch the one that's 11:10 long, it will offer some tips that you may find useful. It's geared towards kitchen knives, but I found it quite informative.

I'm not an expert and I don't have any groundbreaking or original tips to offer you, the video helped me, hopefully it will help you too.
Click to expand...

That video did help a lot. Thanks. I noticed that my angle seems to be quite a bit bigger. But if I go lower or higher it gives a crazy bad feedback
 
Steve-O said:
CoG,

First, slow down. Free hand sharpening is a technique that is learned over time.
Second, know your steel and stones, different steels will feel different on different stones.
Third, you need to be extremely consistent. A millimeter difference in height at the spine
changes the cutting angle drastically.
A tip, start with a finer stone first and see how it cuts, you can always go coarser.
Tip, some steels aren't worth the time, buy knives that tell you the type
of blade steel.
Tip, get rid of that extra coarse diamond stone - put it away or sell it - it's only
good for damaged machetes and axes used for grubbing out camp sites.

I can see why ( and you probably see also) no one else has respond to your post.
The subject is broad and deep and mine is only one opinion.

Last two tips -
Practice, Practice.....Practice!
If at all possible - find a mentor.
I doubt that less than 10% of freehanders are self taught - fathers,
uncles, bosses etc. my dad was my mentor and my great uncle was
his.

I hope for the best, good luck!

Steve-O
Click to expand...

Hey thanks for all this. It is kind of broad, I didn't want to write a book, figured no one would read it hah. And I looked the steel type up and said it seemed pretty easy to sharpen its the sandvik 12c27. Also, i only use the dmt stone to flatten my other stones nothing else.
Ill have to look around for someone to kinda mentor me.
I appreciate your tips though thank you
 
Have you got a magnifier? Have a look at the edge at each stage, see what's happening.
 
I think what you might be messing up is the "Honing" part.

If you just simply "Sharpen" you have razor sharp knife, but you also have a jagged edge. When your using the finer stones you can over compensate and dull it, and they are also less forgiving as you need to keep a constant steady angle. You also have to use a lot less pressure and fewer strokes with the fine stones.
 
The 320grit Shapton cuts 12c27 very quickly so it shouldn't take more then a few minutes to form a burr unless you are lowering the angle more then a few degrees. It sounds like you aren't hitting the apex, have you tried the sharpie trick?
 
fsatsil said:
The 320grit Shapton cuts 12c27 very quickly so it shouldn't take more then a few minutes to form a burr unless you are lowering the angle more then a few degrees. It sounds like you aren't hitting the apex, have you tried the sharpie trick?
Click to expand...

^^^^This.

Mark the edge with a Sharpie.
Until you get to the point where you can "feel" what you're doing, it's better to actually "see" what you're doing.
 
cbrstar said:
I think what you might be messing up is the "Honing" part.

If you just simply "Sharpen" you have razor sharp knife, but you also have a jagged edge. When your using the finer stones you can over compensate and dull it, and they are also less forgiving as you need to keep a constant steady angle. You also have to use a lot less pressure and fewer strokes with the fine stones.
Click to expand...

This is one thing i havnt heard, the less strokes but more pressure, i have been told/taught through videos to not put a lot of pressure on it. I could be over compensating, ima have to try concentrating more to more over/under compensate.

fsatsil said:
The 320grit Shapton cuts 12c27 very quickly so it shouldn't take more then a few minutes to form a burr unless you are lowering the angle more then a few degrees. It sounds like you aren't hitting the apex, have you tried the sharpie trick?
Click to expand...

That's what i was thinking too haha I've seen in videos that people can move on from that stone within minutes. i have tried the sharpie trick and i do get all of the sharpie off the blade as well as trying to stick with the same angle as it came off with but may be lowering it unnoticeably.

aesmith said:
Have you got a magnifier? Have a look at the edge at each stage, see what's happening.
Click to expand...

This is one thing i don't have but been looking to invest in one, just trying to find one with a decent magnification. Any recommendations?


Thank you guys for your comments and tips
 
cbrstar said:
I think what you might be messing up is the "Honing" part.

If you just simply "Sharpen" you have razor sharp knife, but you also have a jagged edge. When your using the finer stones you can over compensate and dull it, and they are also less forgiving as you need to keep a constant steady angle. You also have to use a lot less pressure and fewer strokes with the fine stones.
Click to expand...

Re-read this post. LESS pressure and fewer strokes, not more pressure.
 
CoGraphic said:
This is one thing i don't have but been looking to invest in one, just trying to find one with a decent magnification. Any recommendations?
Click to expand...
10x is enough IMO, remember higher magnification means holding it closer. Look for one of the type called Triplet.
 
aesmith said:
10x is enough IMO, remember higher magnification means holding it closer. Look for one of the type called Triplet.
Click to expand...
Just bought a Carson #LL-10. I like it.

Spend a little more & watch the diameter of the "triplet" types. Some are smaller than a dime, and I've had lenses fall out of the really cheap ones. YMMV.
 
aesmith said:
10x is enough IMO, remember higher magnification means holding it closer. Look for one of the type called Triplet.
Click to expand...

6sigma said:
Just bought a Carson #LL-10. I like it.

Spend a little more & watch the diameter of the "triplet" types. Some are smaller than a dime, and I've had lenses fall out of the really cheap ones. YMMV.
Click to expand...

Will look into it thanks guys
 
Just to clarify my comment, simple magnifiers get their magnification by letting you hold the subject closer while still being able to focus. For these purposes "normal" "1X" is supposed to be at 10" distance. So a 10X magnifier means you're viewing the subject at only 1" if your eye is right on the lens. I always feel there's a danger of jabbing yourself in the face at any higher magnification, and focus gets more critical as well. Good info on magnifiers here ... www.quicktest.co.uk

You might also want to look a watchmaker's eyeglasses. The standard Bergeon ones are pretty usable and surprisingly low cost. I use a 5X on a wire holder, and with the benefits of a greater distance, more tolerant focus and having both hands free I'm not sure I see any less than the 10X hand lens. For example Eyeglass and Holder

I've linked to UK suppliers in each case, you can probably find the exact products locally, or similar.
 
aesmith said:
Just to clarify my comment, simple magnifiers get their magnification by letting you hold the subject closer while still being able to focus. For these purposes "normal" "1X" is supposed to be at 10" distance. So a 10X magnifier means you're viewing the subject at only 1" if your eye is right on the lens. I always feel there's a danger of jabbing yourself in the face at any higher magnification, and focus gets more critical as well. Good info on magnifiers here ... www.quicktest.co.uk

You might also want to look a watchmaker's eyeglasses. The standard Bergeon ones are pretty usable and surprisingly low cost. I use a 5X on a wire holder, and with the benefits of a greater distance, more tolerant focus and having both hands free I'm not sure I see any less than the 10X hand lens. For example Eyeglass and Holder

I've linked to UK suppliers in each case, you can probably find the exact products locally, or similar.
Click to expand...

wow thanks will check these out!
 
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