Sharpening Overload

[Jim Hataway]

Before joining BladeForums recently, I was blissfully satisfied with my knife sharpening results using the Spyderco Sharpmaker or DMT medium and fine diamond "stones". I didn't have any worries-the knives worked OK for me. After reading many posts re sharpening, I'm feeling like I really don't know enough to sharpen a knife. Maybe i am just overwhelmed with all of the information out there. One question: when sharpening a Case folder for the first time, what is the best angle to use? I know that these knives are hollow ground at the factory, but I don't know if there is a preferred method re sharpening. I don't want to overly complicate this, but seek opinions. My Case knife in question is a relatively new Swayback Gent, and this knife is rapidly becoming my favorite. I have used Peanuts as EDC knives for years, but that is changing in favor of the Swayback.

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

Case recommends laying the blade at 10°-15° to the stone, implying a 20°-30° inclusive angle. And their blade steels (CV, 'Tru-Sharp' 420HC) are among the easiest to sharpen up, using most any stone, tool or other media, like sandpaper, for example. Anything from Arkansas stones (least aggressive of all) and beyond, up to and including a diamond hone work well (recommend Fine or EF; nothing coarser). I've personally come to like using a simple hardware store stone (aluminum oxide or silicon carbide) of the kind found at ACE or Sears for example, for heavier grinding and sometimes finishing on the 'Fine' side of the stone. I also like Arkansas stones for finishing Case's blades; a 'soft' or 'medium' Arkansas stone, used with oil, works very well on these, for finishing.

Quoted from Case's own FAQ page ( http://www.wrcase.com/case_college/collector_advice/caring.php ):

"Re-sharpening Your Knife

Hold the blade at a 10” to 15” angle from the surface of a sharpening stone. Maintain a constant angle and stroke the blade as if shaving a thin layer from the stone. Repeat the stroking motion along the entire edge of the blade starting at the blade heel and working to the tip. Turn the blade over and repeat the process. "

Don't worry about all the information out there, or about feeling overwhelmed by it (that's normal). With the above topic and these particular knives, it's about as simple as can be. Nothing complicated is necessary here.


David

 

[Sosa]

I just mark the edge with sharpie and eyeball it. Good enough for me.

 

[bgentry]

Sharpening is one of those things that we (myself and other here) get a bit overly analytical about. You might say that we devote too much thought and attention to something that's not all that complicated.

If you want to uncomplicate it for yourself, just evaluate your sharpening based on cut tests. Can your blade do the cut tests you want to do correctly? Will your blade open a letter, carve up cardboard, cut a tomato, shave hair off of your arm, slice phonebook paper, or whatever your criteria happens to be? If so, you've achieved your goal.

It gets a little harder when you start thinking about how *long* your blade will do those tasks. But keep it simple and maybe sharpening will be fun and satisfying again.

Brian.

 

[Wowbagger]

For me all this "over thinking" boils down to what Murry Carter is talking about here.

He kind of drives me crazy but this video is right on and very instructive. Lots of people will put up with a Western edge. I won't. If I were chopping through bones all day maybe but other than that . . .

I can cut most everything I need to cut with a Japanese style edge. Most of the knives I buy including Swiss Army pocket knives have this obtuse Western grind for use in hammering the blade through nails or something I can't quite imagine.

Pay particular attention to what he says about starting TOO SHALLOW to where the edge gets damaged in use and then steepening the sharpening bevel just enough to where that does not happen for HOW YOU CUT. That's the ticket ! That's the Key ! That's the "Sweet Spot".

Once the edge is thinned out and the angle made narrower , Japanese style, THEN we can cut something. The Western grind is not only difficult to push through stuff it, for some reason, won't stay very sharp very long and tends to be more difficult to sharpen free hand.

From my woodworking back ground hand planing really difficult and hard wood I learned to sharpen very precisely using jigs and two degrees some times made quite a difference in the surface left on the wood by the blade. Too shallow and it popped little divots out of the wood surface and or the edge would get dinged up and damaged.

Too steep and it would take more muscle power than necessary to force the blade through the wood especially when attempting to take thick cuts to dimension the wood down to size.

So . . . I became use to edges that were not only so sharp they could literally split hairs while the hair was still in your arm but cut with out much force and held an edge well . . . this was a result of using a jig and polishing the edge so it slipped through the wood easier rather than any overkill and concentration on my part. Heck I just put the blade in the jig, mindlessly go through the motions on four stones and the blade comes out that sharp and durable EVERY TIME. What's not to like ?

So . . . I have come to expect that kind of performance from my pocket knifes and fixed blade knives :
Poliished edges for low cutting resistance.
Proper angles so the edge does not dull or fold too quickly but also so it doesn't take undue amounts of force to cut through tough / hard materials.
And while I have the blade on the stones it is really no extra effort to use one or two more stones and get an edge that splits hairs and reflects like a mirror . . . which is . . . I will admit . . . just plane FUN to have.

So once you " OVER THINK " sharpening (learn the finer points) you can just relax and enjoy. Like any hobby why not have the good stuff if one has the inclination to.

I am not a gun person but I imagine once you " OVER THINK " guns you can ACTUALLY hit stuff you shoot at. Repeatedly. When ever you want to.

What's not to like ?

 

[jc57]

I sharpen my Case knives at 20 degrees per side (40 inclusive). I use the Sharpmaker with the standard ceramic rods, and then strop on a firm leather strop with green compound. If the original factory bevel is more obtuse or uneven, I use a Norton India combo bench stone to set the bevel first. If the factory edge is more acute, I may go with the 15 degree per side (30 inclusive) slots on the Sharpmaker.

If I'm feeling in the mood for some free-hand sharpening, I'll go with the Norton followed by a soft/hard Arkansas stone and then strop. Traditional sharpening tools for traditional knives.

Sometimes all the factory edge needs is stropping to remove the burr and then ready to go. It's just a pocket knife, after all. Save the insane sharpening for razors, woodworking tools, kitchen knives. Unless you enjoy the sharpening itself, then go nuts.

 

[Jim Hataway]

Thanks for the input. Since I don't own any knives with special steels, and since my edc knives are Case folders, I decided to keep it simple. Got out my old Buck washita and hard arkansas stones, got some honing oil and sharpened a couple of my knives. But I did add stropping with medium and fine pastes. They will both shave hair. So I'm a happy camper.

 

[ToddM]

It can be information overload, and while the mechanics/physics of sharpening are fairly simple it can be very frustrating. For example, I've tried dozens of times over the years to "force" myself to learn how to strop effectively, and after making no less than probably 50+ blades the same or more dull, I've simply accepted I'm "cursed" in regards to it. Watched all the videos tried all sorts of strops/pastes/angles/pressures. It obviously works great for some, but I haven't figured it out yet. It can get addicting, I used to think 20 years ago I could get a really good edge on a Lansky, and I did. Then I added a sharpmaker for touch up maintenance and my edges went up a notch. Then I got an edge pro and soon I was making edges sharper than I ever had on a Lansky or sharpmaker. My edges took another step up when I got the Wicked Edge, but at the end of the day my Lansky/Sharpmaker combo from 20 years ago still made edges that were shaving sharp and for less than $100. In day to day usefulness they were 99% as good as the edges I can get now on much more expensive equipment.

If you can get a nice shaving sharp edge freehand I'd say keep doing it. There's a lot of guys, myself included, that have spent a ton of $ on sharpening systems that still wish we could freehand sharpen a really nice edge. One of these days I'm going to take some old kitchen knives and just keep freehand sharpening them till I figure that out better too.

 

[Wowbagger]

One of these days I'm going to take some old kitchen knives and just keep freehand sharpening them till I figure that out better too.

I have seen people recommend that. It think it is harder to sharpen cheep stainless / too much wire edge that just won't go away.

I would recommend a practice knife with mid grade steel. I swear . . . even my S110V is easier to sharpen because it does not hold onto the bur. As long as I use the Shaptons . . . really it is easier than the junk especially for the mirror polished kind of edge.

 

[AFAustin]

It can be information overload, and while the mechanics/physics of sharpening are fairly simple it can be very frustrating. For example, I've tried dozens of times over the years to "force" myself to learn how to strop effectively, and after making no less than probably 50+ blades the same or more dull, I've simply accepted I'm "cursed" in regards to it. Watched all the videos tried all sorts of strops/pastes/angles/pressures. It obviously works great for some, but I haven't figured it out yet.

Todd, I likewise found that traditional leather-on-wood paddle strops often just led to edge rounding for me. A real breakthrough for me was simple denim-on-wood strops. I like the larger size paint sticks which Lowes or Home Depot give away. I glue on a single piece of denim cut from a worn out pair of jeans, and then apply compound---my favorite for a while has been the Ryobi "H" which David (Obsessed with Edges) recommended (it's discontinued but last I checked, was still available online). I think the advantage of this type strop is a combination of the thin denim on hard backing plus the fact that, instead of it resting on a bench, I hold it in my off hand with the knife in the other. With both hands in the mix, it's easier (for me at least) to maintain a very light touch and avoid rounding.

Before you give up on stropping, you might want to give it a try.

Andrew