Sharpening pen vs clip blades

[mrdabble]

Ok so this topic may seem a bit silly, but we're here to discuss after all, no?

Anyway I am confused. I couple months ago I got a Victorinox and I sharpened up both blades and the small blade just wasn't nearly as sharp as the large.

Fast foreword to last night, I am sharpening my new case peanut. I can make hairs FLY off my arm with the clip blade, but the pen just doesn't nearly as sharp, and I sharpened them using the exact same procedure on the sharpmaker.

Has anybody else experienced this? I was just curious to see if anyone else had this happen so I could figure out how I should tweak my technique with a bit less trial and error. Thanks all!

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

For me, a lot of fixing such problems came down to getting a firm, steady and comfortable hold on the small (tiny) handle of Peanut-sized folders. On such a small knife, it was difficult for me to hold it in such a manner as to maintain the sharpening angle as steady as I wanted. And the smaller the blade (like a pen), the more of an issue it presented. For the Victorinox, it's very easy to exert too much pressure against the edge on these blades (the steel is quite soft on Vics); I'd focus on minimizing pressure first, as the edge may be getting rolled if it's even slightly too heavy. This is a very common difficulty in sharpening these knives on the SM and similar V-crock sharpeners, as the very hard ceramic can roll or burr the edge on very soft steel in a single pass.

One thing that might be influencing how 'sharp' the larger clip blade is on the Peanut, relative to the pen blade, is that the grind of the clip on the Peanut is very, very thin; more so, near the tip. Combined with a somewhat wider blade (spine-to-edge), the grind at the edge will lend itself more easily to acute sharpening angles.


David

 

[Philbird]

I am by no means an expert, but I suspect that because the edge of a pen blade has less surface area while sharpening, one may apply more pressure than necessary on the edge, thus throwing off results. Try using less pressure and more repetition.
(This advice may not pertain to a Sharpmaker, as I have no experience with it and just use freehand)

 

[Philbird]

For me, a lot of fixing such problems came down to getting a firm, steady and comfortable hold on the small (tiny) handle of Peanut-sized folders. On such a small knife, it was difficult for me to hold it in such a manner as to maintain the sharpening angle as steady as I wanted. And the smaller the blade (like a pen), the more of an issue it presented. For the Victorinox, it's very easy to exert too much pressure against the edge on these blades (the steel is quite soft on Vics); I'd focus on minimizing pressure first, as the edge may be getting rolled if it's even slightly too heavy. This is a very common difficulty in sharpening these knives on the SM and similar V-crock sharpeners, as the very hard ceramic can roll or burr the edge on very soft steel in a single pass.

One thing that might be influencing how 'sharp' the larger clip blade is on the Peanut, relative to the pen blade, is that the grind of the clip on the Peanut is very, very thin; more so, near the tip. Combined with a somewhat wider blade (spine-to-edge), the grind at the edge will lend itself more easily to acute sharpening angles.


David

Great minds think simultaneously!

 

[jackknife]

As an experienced peanut user, I can tell you that you will not get the same edge on a peanut pen blade as on the cli[p. Look at the stock thicknessvs thehight of the blade, vs the angle needed to sharpen. The pen blade of a peanut is way thicker in back of the edge than the clip. Thicker edge, less sharp. All about geometry.

This is why on my peanuts, I use the pen blade as my dirty deeds blade. Cutting open cardboard boxes, UPS boxes that have that fiber re-enforced tape that will screw up any edge. Stripping wire for a repair. I keep the clip main blade for the easy slicing jobs that won't bugger up or ding the edge. Butthat's the real beauty of the two blade knife; keep one blade very sharp, the other less so for the dirty work. :thumbup:

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

One thing I did with my Chestnut Bone CV Peanut, shortly after I bought it, was to use a Fine diamond hone to thin the pen blade's grind near the edge. Then stropped it on linen-over-wood with some white rouge compound, which polished it up very fast and left a nicely-thinned & subtle convex on it. If 'hair-popping' is what you'd like to have on the pen, that's a good way to do it. I also used the same diamond hone to file down the spine a bit, near the tip; so it's extra pointy-sharp now as well.


David

 

[mrdabble]

Thanks guys. I probably was using too much pressure being used to harder steels. Also, I understand the concept of geometry and that it effects cutting and sharpening greatly, but the specifics of how and why I am very new to, but absolutely understand what you are saying in that respect. It makes perfect sense that more care must be used to sharpen the smaller blade, I took my time but perhaps with more controlled pressure and more attention to the geometry I will receive better results.

Would you recommend I use the 30 degree setting on the sharpmaker or perhaps use the 30 inclusive as a back bevel then put the 40 on it? Or would a more obtuse angle altogether (<40) be appropriate for it's geometry?

Ps I always value the input I receive in this subforum. I've been into blades for a long time but never so advanced as I am now and never anywhere near the expertise I find here, I appreciate it very much so!

 

[Philbird]

30 deg. inclusive with microbevel. Both knives you've describe use soft steels that like microbevels for edge retention.

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

Thanks guys. I probably was using too much pressure being used to harder steels. Also, I understand the concept of geometry and that it effects cutting and sharpening greatly, but the specifics of how and why I am very new to, but absolutely understand what you are saying in that respect. It makes perfect sense that more care must be used to sharpen the smaller blade, I took my time but perhaps with more controlled pressure and more attention to the geometry I will receive better results.

Would you recommend I use the 30 degree setting on the sharpmaker or perhaps use the 30 inclusive as a back bevel then put the 40 on it? Or would a more obtuse angle altogether (<40) be appropriate for it's geometry?

Ps I always value the input I receive in this subforum. I've been into blades for a long time but never so advanced as I am now and never anywhere near the expertise I find here, I appreciate it very much so!

If you use your small blades for tasks generally well-suited to them (fairly light duty, like opening packages & such), then the 30° setting will be fine. You'll like the cutting performance better as well. I'm sure all of mine are at 30° or less, and I love the surgical slicing at this narrower geometry.

If you do use your pen blade for harsher tasks (scraping, digging, probing, etc.), then a 40° microbevel on the edge of the 30° back-bevel might be better for you. I'd never go any wider than 40° on any blade, as I believe there's not much benefit in maintaining a 'durable' edge that won't cut well anyway.


David

 

[mrdabble]

If you use your small blades for tasks generally well-suited to them (fairly light duty, like opening packages & such), then the 30° setting will be fine. You'll like the cutting performance better as well. I'm sure all of mine are at 30° or less, and I love the surgical slicing at this narrower geometry.

If you do use your pen blade for harsher tasks (scraping, digging, probing, etc.), then a 40° microbevel on the edge of the 30° back-bevel might be better for you. I'd never go any wider than 40° on any blade, as I believe there's not much benefit in maintaining a 'durable' edge that won't cut well anyway.


David

Gotcha. I plan on using it for more grueling tasks like scraping and whatnot like jackknife mentioned, so I'll try the 30 back bevel w/ 40 micro bevel using lighter pressure this time.