Sharpening problems with PM2/S30V

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Jul 6, 2009
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Recently sharpened a stock PM2 for a buddy; knife is factory and one year of EDC by owner...shows some minor scratches on the blade from normal use.
Used SIC stones in 120, 400 and 600 grit and Shapton 1K and 4K.
Re-profiled edge to 30 deg inclusive, but the sharpest (sticky) edge I was able to achieve was with the 400 grit...with the later polished edges able to cut Yellow Pages (0.002") paper very nicely, but difficulty in shaving arm hair. Edge was never "sticky" as I've found with other steels...e.g. CTS-XHP.
Once I re-profiled with early grits, was never able to raise any kind of burr on this particular blade, although was able to achieve a nice apex...with NO light glint or reflection.
Finished blade "looked good" but was not "sticky-sharp" to the touch and would tend to slide off of fingernail more than expected. Even tried a slight micro-bevel at ~ one degree greater, just to be sure that I was on the apex. No change at all...
Sent the knife back to my friend and I suspect he'll like it okay...but...would appreciate suggestions for future sharpening that I do...
I don't know whether this is reflective, generally, of S30V, as I have not sharpened this steel in the past. My stones are basically new and of good quality. I realize that I "should" be able to raise a burr...but could not, once I got past the 120 grit, which produced a lot of slurry.
I really want to achieve an edge that is "scary-sharp" and capable of splitting hairs. I have included several pics, but none that show an edge-on view. I did examine apex often with 10x glass, under a very bright desk lamp, and could not see light reflection which would indicate that I stopped short of getting to the apex. I am at a loss to explain this, and want to rectify it in the future.
Also, I tried to strop with green compound on several good quality strops (from StropMan and StropBlock from KnivesPlus) with no improvement whatsoever. I am really familiar with stropping procedure and technical info on proper angles, etc., but have NEVER been able to show much improvement with ANY strops. Perhaps I need to clean strops thoroughly and put on fresh compound or go to diamond spray...????
PM2 Mac's.jpg
PM2 Mac's2.jpg
thanx for your input...:confused:
SonnyDaze
 
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You sound like your more adept at sharpening than I am, but I have 3 knives in S30V that I sharpen on an edge pro (a Manix 2 XL, Paramilitary 2, and a BM Emissary 477-1)
All of which I have achieved sticky sharpness on.
The most recent was my PM2, I took it to 1000 grit which I find to be more than enough for edc. The edge is sharp enough so that I could shave the hair off the whole length of my arm in one pass if I wanted to...
The only thing I can say that I did differently than you for certain, is I left the edge at the factory angle...
Sorry I'm not much help, but in my opinion S30V is a great steel, and shouldn't be that difficult to sharpen.
 
Recently sharpened a stock PM2 for a buddy; knife is factory and one year of EDC by owner...shows some minor scratches on the blade from normal use.
Used SIC stones in 120, 400 and 600 grit and Shapton 1K and 4K.
Re-profiled edge to 30 deg inclusive, but the sharpest (sticky) edge I was able to achieve was with the 400 grit...with the later polished edges able to cut Yellow Pages (0.002") paper very nicely, but difficulty in shaving arm hair. Edge was never "sticky" as I've found with other steels...e.g. CTS-XHP.
Once I re-profiled with early grits, was never able to raise any kind of burr on this particular blade, although was able to achieve a nice apex...with NO light glint or reflection.
Finished blade "looked good" but was not "sticky-sharp" to the touch and would tend to slide off of fingernail more than expected. Even tried a slight micro-bevel at ~ one degree greater, just to be sure that I was on the apex. No change at all...
Sent the knife back to my friend and I suspect he'll like it okay...but...would appreciate suggestions for future sharpening that I do...
I don't know whether this is reflective, generally, of S30V, as I have not sharpened this steel in the past. My stones are basically new and of good quality. I realize that I "should" be able to raise a burr...but could not, once I got past the 120 grit, which produced a lot of slurry.
I really want to achieve an edge that is "scary-sharp" and capable of splitting hairs. I have included several pics, but none that show an edge-on view. I did examine apex often with 10x glass, under a very bright desk lamp, and could not see light reflection which would indicate that I stopped short of getting to the apex. I am at a loss to explain this, and want to rectify it in the future.
Also, I tried to strop with green compound on several good quality strops (from StropMan and StropBlock from KnivesPlus) with no improvement whatsoever. I am really familiar with stropping procedure and technical info on proper angles, etc., but have NEVER been able to show much improvement with ANY strops. Perhaps I need to clean strops thoroughly and put on fresh compound or go to diamond spray...????
View attachment 684866
View attachment 684867
thanx for your input...:confused:
SonnyDaze
Hi,
Is this freehand?
Are you deburring using double angle?
Did you check shaving in both directions?
Able to push cut those papers (yellowpages/phonebook/newsprint)?
How many passes for the microbevel?
Are you using ultra light force for that part?

For deburring try double angle (or at least +5 angle) and 1-2 alternating edge into/edge leading passes
using ultra light force (under 100 grams, as light as you can control)

If shave in only one direction, its micro burr (doesn't catch on fingernail), so double the angle to deburr
If it doesnt shave but it push cuts paper, then apex is rounded over ,
so raise angle +5 degrees and do 5-20 edge leading alternating passes per side
then check shaving/pushcutting..
If after this it shaves but struggles push cutting,
it was more than rounded over,
it was underformed, ,like from too much hand wobble (or stone unevenness)

so go back to original not-double angle and do some careful passes to catch up

update: regarding stropping,
did you put the compound on the strop? how?
Is the strop turning very black within 5-10 passes per side?

My recent experience with stropping green/white craftsman/sears compound,
to see an improvement in high sharpness
(go from beard to head hair whittling )
with stropping
the edge need to be very sharp already,
push cutting newspaper readily and shaving in both directions (whittling beard hair)
basically it needs to be almost head hair whittling or (barely) head hair whittling

If my edge wasn't great at push cutting newspaper/phonebook,
wasn't even all along the edge,
was too much convex,
stropping would only improve push cutting paper
it wouldn't get me to head hair whittling
or it would happen randomly sometimes after continuing to strop for 30pps/50pps/100pps
but very hit and miss ... stropping should improve apex quickly, otherwise your stone work was unfinished

I'm only going from 600grit to strop (popsicle, cerealbox)
 
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Your not hitting the apex, you have multiple bevels that's why your not getting light reflecting with your checking method. Just pick an angle, stay consistent, and follow through with a burr.
 
thanx to all for your input. Definitely NOT freehand. I can sharpen kitchen knives free-hand, but don't trust myself with nice folders. Kitchen knives are not important items to me. (no offense)
I could just barely push-cut yellow pages, but could not shave hair. Strop is funny; it has eluded my best efforts...I will clean these strops and check out some different compounds. Had I stopped with 400 grit, the edge would have been pretty decent. So it appears from your replies, that I've rounded the apex.
The Stropblock comes pre-loaded with green, and the StropMan block was loaded with green that I bought along with the strop. It comes in a "crayon" form. My strop does not get black very quickly at all. I have never used the white crayon which is the coarse, as I felt that my knives should be sharp enough after sharpening to require only the green "fine." Perhaps faulty reasoning.
I've gotten enough replies to give me some good lines to follow in the future. I appreciate the help from all of you.
Don
 
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