Sharpening QCQ-7. specific angle?

[GoneOnTheRoad]

hi. had a CQC-7 for a couple of months now. i'm new to the whole knife thing, but it's easily the sharpest knife i've ever owned. but it's also the first chisel-grind i've ever owned. i'm gonna be really sad to see that edge go. so much so that i'm not using it as hard as it can be/is supposed to be.
i know i can send it back to emerson, to have it sharpened. but, in a way, it's also sending them my foolish pride. the emerson website has some sharpening instructions, but they're not too helpful.

i have a GATCO sharpening system with multiple angle selectors. a 21 degree... a 25? are any of these good for sharpening my cqc-7 back to it's factory sharpness? is there a better way of sharpening than this gatco for a close price? (i paid $40)

thanks,
steve

 

[Haze]

I find it easier to keep touching the knife up and not let it atually get dull in the first place. This is an easier way to keep the original bevel angle than re-sharpening the the knife to a specific angle using "said" system if thats what you want.

I use a few different sharpeners to touch up the edge from fine/medium ceramics to ultra fine stones (~25 microns or less) as well as a strop, dry or using cutting paste.

You also might want to rebevel the knife any way, depending on what you use your knife for. I rebevel some of my knives but leave others as they were out the box, or close to it.


:thumbup:

 

[Lycosa]

Haze gave good advice. If you want a true chisel grind, send your blade to Tom Krein. Then that knife will cut like it's supposed to!

 

[SIFU1A]

ya should go to emersonknives.com they have a tutorial on how to sharpen CG's, i dont like to use clamp ons or sharpmakers on EKIs the angle just isnt right, all you need is a decent stone (ie a norton india is good) and a strop or some cardboard, and it isnt that hard.

or send it to krein for rebeveling, but ya are still gonna have to learn to sharpen it imho.

 

[GoneOnTheRoad]

what exactly is meant when you mention "Bevel" ?

it would think chisel grinds are easier to sharpen... you're not worried about meeting the two edges in a variable place. if i was to use my angle-sharpener, though. what would you guess is the closest to factory angle?

hypothetically... if you send it out to Mr. Krein. with daily use, how long until you're sending it back to him, for a touch-up?

i never really trusted myself with hand-sharpening. (the sharpening of hands?) so i bought one of those clamp jobs that guides, for me. if i'm going to take the time to be sending the knife out each time i need it touched-up, shouldn't i just send it to emerson? since the factory edge is what i'm looking for? did i just defeat the purpose of this thread?

i use the knife everyday. whether it be on wire ties, rope, stubborn mail, my own flesh, prying various un-openables.

i'd prefer it sharp as possible, but to to the point of frailty.

 

[Haze]

Having to send the knife away for resharpening every time it needs it is impractical and really not nesesary.
If you have reservations on how to sharpen a knife have a look at the maintanance forum here for a how to :thumbup:

Dont get stuck on trying to keep the factory bevel on your knife. It may or may not be the best angle to have. The factory edge is a good allround finish that will do just fine but if you want to get a stupidly sharp edge or a tougher edge you will need to play with the bevel angles to find whats best for your use.

If you touch up the knife by hand you will be able to keep the bevel from the factory. To be honest there is no bench mark for a factory edge from EKI any way, I have different angles on nearly all if not all my knives out the box.

This pic shows me touching up a knife, its not blunt so just a few passes with the "crock stick" (same as you see on the EKI web page) keeping it flat on the edge bevel will get the edge back up to par. (I move the stick over the blade holding the knife still) Give it a strop afterwards on a bit of cardboard or charged leather and you will be back right where you want to be.:thumbup:

The bevel is the shiney bit that forms the actuall cutting edge by the way.

hope that helps

If you get a Tom K. regrind you will need to strop the knife regularly to keep it sharp or use a really fine ceramic. He puts a "zero bevel" or very close to it on the knives he does so its not quite the same to sharpen as a "normal" blade.
The TK blade i have has kept its edge very well with a "stropping" every once in awhile but it depends on what your using it for really. Im a bit of an obsesive compulsive when it comes to my knives so i do go a bit over the top with how often i need to sharpen them, from time to time

:thumbup:

 

[SIFU1A]

FWIW a std chisel grind has 3 angles while a zero bevel grind has but 2 angles, a std CG will not get as sharp as a ZBG but will hold an edge longer and be more rugged, a ZBG is really sharp but not very rugged and will not stay sharp as long. no production emersons have a ZBG but a lot of his customs do.

niether one is hard to re-sharpen with the proper tools and a little practice.

i like the ZBG myself, for how i use a knife, but if used strictly for utility imho its not the best really, but not too bad, if ya like the factory edge ya are gonna have to learn to resharpen it yourself or send it to EKI i suppose, i dont think any of the gatco angles are gonna be right for an EKI like i said free hand is the way to go with EKI's.

 

[Lycosa]

Practice! And use junker knives! You'll get it but some admit that sharpening is hard or impossible for them. Jerry Busse, claims to be one of those people.

 

[SIFU1A]

also remember a regrind will void your warranty with EKI......

 

[GoneOnTheRoad]

ok... let's back-track. that tutorial on the emerson website is not specific to Chisel Grinds, right? it begins by demonstrating on a Commander, which is a V-grind. correct?

the thing that's throwing me off about that is, he starts to pushing the sharpening TOWARDS the edge of the knife. every time i've seen sharpening, it's done the other way. as if cutting into it.

but, if it is on a V-grind. why does it show him only doing the sharpening on one side? and switching to the other side just to take off the burr?

what is...
zero bevel grind?

are those croc sticks the way to go?

 

[Haze]

Emerson knives only have the edge bevel on one side. even the "V" ground blades. Its a bit of a trade mark thing and EKI do this for a number of other reasons, ease of up keep is one of them, the fact it was used on a million+ AK-47 bayonetes is another.

This is why you dont see him sharpening the "V" grind the way you expected him to on the web page.

These pics. show a chisel gind (La Griffe) and a "V" grind (Persian)

You can see on the persian it has a bevel on both sides but the actual cutting edge (secondary bevel) is only ground on one side. The other side only has a thin silver line where the burr has been "knocked" off. This is the same for the Commander, CQC-12, CQC-14 and a few others.

The Chisel ground blades are flat on the "back" side and only have the bevels ground on one side. Like the La Griffe, CQC-7s and one or two others.

A zero bevel grind is a grind that has no secondary bevel, the primary bevel forms the actual cutting edge. This is used on knives like Moras and other "Scandi" style blades as well as some of the Emerson custom knives.

A zero bevel grind is alot sharper but is less robust than a secondry bevel grind. You can have a chissel or "V" ground zero bevel edge.

As for the crock sticks, there fine for a touch up but if you need to actually remove steel for a proper sharpening they are not the best. They will keep your knife sharp as long as you dont let it get too dull.
It think on the Emerson web page he is just showing some different possibilities when you need to sharpen a knife, neither is right or wrong. I personally find it easier to push steel over the edge and de-burr it but every one is different.

Hope that all makes sense


:thumbup:

 

[SIFU1A]

the only EKI with anywhere near a std "v" grind is a CQC12 and its not really a std "v' grind.

i tend to call all of them a chisel grind though technically thats not correct, of course what they call them isnt imho really right either lol.

i wish i had a doller for every person who has bought a commander expecting a std "v" grind and then posted here in confusion, i could buy a commander.

 

[Haze]

The Persian and other "V" ground blades from EKI are just the same as the 12, its only the blade shape thats different. I wouldnt say the 12 is any more or less of a "V" grind than any of the others.

The EKI set up defo. causes some confusion though, il agree with that much :thumbup:

 

[SIFU1A]

well imho the '12 is closer to a std v than the P-tac, mine sure is. its certainly closer than a commander is.

whats your definition of a std "v" grind, must be different than mine.

and do mean it (the '12) cuts closer to a std "v" than the others, for whatever reasons.