Sharpening question for steel junkies...

mlanghornes

mlanghornes

Joined
Apr 24, 2009
Messages
798
I love cheap knives...I mean really cheap, like <$30 cheap. This has, of course, lead me to many worthless knives, but a few gems (Byrd line, Dozier hunter, Buck Bantam, etc). Anyway, I've noticed something I can't explain when sharpening some knives. Those of halfway-decent steel (AUS8, 8Cr13MoV) sharpen easily and hold an edge pretty well. The burr formed is small and easily removed. The steel of super-cheap walmart special knives (Remington, Winchester, others named after rifle manufacturers) is usually very soft, meaning it is easy to sharpen, gets very sharp (if I can remove the giant burr that forms and keeps flopping over), but loses the edge if you look at it funny. That, I also understand.

My problem is that certain class of cheap knives that seemingly refuses to sharpen, does not generate a burr unless you threaten it, never really gets sharp, and will not hold an edge. I would've thought that most cheap knives had soft steel, like the second case. What is going on with these knives? I know it's crap steel, but what's going on? Too hard? Too many carbides?
 
some knives just wont take a good edge no matter what. its almost like they will only get "so sharp" and thats it. a lot of pakistan made knives are that way. if someone brings me a knife made there i tell them to save their money and buy a good knife.
 
Unless you have a Rockwell tester handy, you don't really know how soft that steel is. It's possible that those blades are really softer than even Wal-Mart specials.
 
Sep said:
Unless you have a Rockwell tester handy, you don't really know how soft that steel is. It's possible that those blades are really softer than even Wal-Mart specials.
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Yup. It's difficult to sharpen butter.
 
It's probably not even hardened steel and most likely of the lowest grade possiable. IMO its a waste of time to even use a knife like that.
 
I think that there are some steels that even when hard won't take a decent edge.

I've dealt with some 'shiny blade special' knives wherein the edge seems to chip away, even at rather obtuse angles, and other knives that when you go to a finer grit sharpener loose sharpness.

I've had a few knives that I just gave up trying to get an edge on, snapped the blade off prior to disposal, and noticed that the blade appeared to have been a cast metal.
 
Huh. That seems to make sense. I wouldn't be surprised at all if that were the case, since I'm talking at least a few inches below the bottom of the barrel. Worth it, though, to find a diamond in the rough.
 
I agree with Richard J. about the pakastani made knives. It's like they are just pot metal. I've only found one pakistani made knife that was made of decent steel and took a good edge, though the fit & finish are pretty bad. It is a "sawmill cutlery" blade made of an old file. A real one, as I've seen pakastani knives that were faked files and nothing but pot steel. This Sawmill cutlery knife takes a nice carbon tool steel edge. I'd guess it's about RC53 to 55. Sharpens about as easy as a CV Case, or mercator, but with a definite tool steel carbide edge. It surprised me after all the junk I've seen. Pakastani blades even smell bad coming out of the box. Joe
 
I have found certain Pakistani knives to be quite useful in everyday light-moderate duty, especially the Wild Boar brand. But lately I find the Chinese knives (Rough rider is mentioned often) to be incredible buys, both low priced and good quality. I've purchased over 20 in the last year (get them before the price goes up) and haven't found a looser in the bunch. They are all much better than my Case workknife/sodbuster.

As to Walmart knives, I worked as a retail buyer for 17 years and have the utmost respect for the Walmart buyers. Picking from every combination of price and quality from manufacturers all over the world is not an easy job, and it is the buyer who determines what will be available to you. I find Walmart merchandise to be consistently excellent value for the money.

Why is it a guy who uses a $400 slipjoint to cut apples and open letters knocks Walmart knives, when everything in his house his wife bought at Walmart???
 
mlanghornes said:
My problem is that certain class of cheap knives that seemingly refuses to sharpen, does not generate a burr unless you threaten it, never really gets sharp, and will not hold an edge. I would've thought that most cheap knives had soft steel, like the second case. What is going on with these knives? I know it's crap steel, but what's going on? Too hard? Too many carbides?
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In order to even GET a burr, the steel needs to have at least SOME flexibility and toughness. I'm guessing these "no burr" knives are SO bad that they're incapable of getting a burr because it breaks (or flakes?) off.

The whole "burr" concept assumes that the steel is going to behave a certain way. The steel quality may be beneath this assumption.

If you go slow, you might see it happening.

I'm curious. You should send me one of these "burrless" knives to see if I can sharpen it.

.
 
I could barely get a butter knife to shave at high polish, had to leave the edge coarse to cut
 
fulloflead said:
You should send me one of these "burrless" knives to see if I can sharpen it.

.
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Just get one of the new Schrade ala Taylor Brands LLC. You won't be out much money, though I guarantee you the frustration will cause you to stay up way too late...
 
The only knife I have never been able to sharpen to my satisfaction was a very old Spyderco Delica, made back when they first came out. IIRC it has a blade steel designated something like "G2" or some such. Could NOT get a decent edge on that knife. Very frustrating.

Andy
 
Strange, G2 ( real name is Gin 1) is a good, premium Japanese steel. Mine take and hold good edges. Did someone sharpen yours on a grinder? Just curious. Joe
 
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