Sharpening question

K

Kyle R Stansbery

Joined
Apr 18, 2020
Messages
7
Hi, im new, both to the forum, and knives in general. I have a 9Cr18mov blade. I use lansky honing stones, and also lansky quadsharp for in the field sharpening/blade maintenance. This blade has a razor sharp edge, and holds it well. My question is after using the quad sharp, ive noticed tiny serration marks on the blade edge. What are those? Have i done something wrong? Please help a noob. Thank you.
 
You'd do better to post you question in the Maintenance sub-forum. That said, a clear close-up of the edge would be needed to see for certain what you are talking about. My guess from what you've posted so far would be a combination of coarse abrasives and excess pressure have left scratches that finer grits have not yet removed. I admit I'm spitballing here.

Welcome to the forum!
 
I agree. I assume you do not mean chips in the edge. As you move from coarser to finer, you will see less of those scratch marks on the edge. Each finer stone/sandpaper/rod, whatever polishes the blade more and more. Removing marks.

I’ll tell you something that took me years to learn. Your knife does not need to shave. If it’s sharp enough for your needs, you’re done! Don’t go down the rabbit hole. You don’t need a 200,000 grit edge. Maybe consider a strop. When you are satisfied with your edge, give it a couple swipes on a strop. Use the strop to maintain your edge as well. Few swipes a night if you use your knife daily. That will preserve your edge. Less sharpening the better. When you sharpen on a stone, you remove metal.
 
I agree. I assume you do not mean chips in the edge. As you move from coarser to finer, you will see less of those scratch marks on the edge. Each finer stone/sandpaper/rod, whatever polishes the blade more and more. Removing marks.

I’ll tell you something that took me years to learn. Your knife does not need to shave. If it’s sharp enough for your needs, you’re done! Don’t go down the rabbit hole. You don’t need a 200,000 grit edge. Maybe consider a strop. When you are satisfied with your edge, give it a couple swipes on a strop. Use the strop to maintain your edge as well. Few swipes a night if you use your knife daily. That will preserve your edge. Less sharpening the better. When you sharpen on a stone, you remove metal.
 
shopdoc said:
I agree. I assume you do not mean chips in the edge. As you move from coarser to finer, you will see less of those scratch marks on the edge. Each finer stone/sandpaper/rod, whatever polishes the blade more and more. Removing marks.

I’ll tell you something that took me years to learn. Your knife does not need to shave. If it’s sharp enough for your needs, you’re done! Don’t go down the rabbit hole. You don’t need a 200,000 grit edge. Maybe consider a strop. When you are satisfied with your edge, give it a couple swipes on a strop. Use the strop to maintain your edge as well. Few swipes a night if you use your knife daily. That will preserve your edge. Less sharpening the better. When you sharpen on a stone, you remove metal.
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What doc said!

Keep in mind that every time you sharpen, you are removing some metal. I got obsessive compulsive on sharpening in my younger day, and actually wore a knife out, not from a lot of use, but sharpening the blade away until it was very much narrower than it started out being. Its easy to shorten the life of a knife by too much sharpening. It its sharp enough to cut what you need in the course of your normal day, thats good enough. If you need to shave, use a real razor. :thumbsup:
 
94036079_3126925333996040_6085074167068098560_o.jpg
 
Also my quad sharp has a ceramic strip on top which i use after sharpening to remove the "wire" but, i still am new, and am probably doing something wrong lol
 
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Kyle R Stansbery said:
Also my quad sharp has a ceramic strip on top which i use after sharpening to remove the "wire" but, i still am new, and am pribably doing something wrong lol
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Kyle, I can't say that you're really doing anything wrong as I have zero experience with those modern sharpening gizmos. Like most the old crocks, I've been free hand sharpening since I was a kid, and I carry a little Eze-Lap model L with most the handle cut off in my wallet.

I've always used the small circle method of sharpening, starting at the blades kick and making your way slowly to the tip. A minute per side and check your progress. Or the bottom of a coffee mug works well too. The 5-4-3-2-1-and your done is good.

The biggest thing all those sharpening fixtures are designed to do well is, get the customers money out of his pocket and into theirs. Learn to free hand and you'll be miles ahead.
 
Kyle R Stansbery said:
94036079_3126925333996040_6085074167068098560_o.jpg
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Well you’ve been more successful than me and actually uploaded a picture. I’ve yet to figure that out LOL.

If you take your thumbnail and run it up the blade from the spine of the blade toward the edge, does it catch? In other words do you feel a burr? When you sharpen the blade your goal is to form a bur on one side, then move to the next side and form a bur. This tells you that you are sharpening the very edge. Sometimes you get a wire edge where the bur just moves back-and-forth and never goes away. Some steels are also more prone to this. You can take your knife and swipe it across the corner of a 2 x 4 and get rid of that wire edge. As I said, the other option is you just need to move to the other side to remove your bur.

if you do feel the bur with the thumbnail test, first sharpen the other side a bit then back to original side and so on. 5 strokes each side, then 4,3,2,1.

if you don’t feel a bur, these may just be scratch marks and no worries. It’s hard for me to tell for sure from your picture, but these are just some thoughts of mine.
 
One thing I forgot to tell Kyle.

Google Youtube instinctive knife sharpening, and look for the video with the old gray beard guy in a gray flat cap and blue windbreaker at a picnic table. Thats me, giving a lesson to a fellow blade forum member when I was still living in Maryland. It shows use of a coffee mug bottom and old rough 'carborundum' stone to put a fast useable edge on a knife. In the last part of the vid, I show the small circle way.

Its an amateurish video, but I think I got the basics shown. Most people over think knife sharpening. Its not rocket science, anti doesn't matter if the edge angle is off a few degrees one way or another. That piece of rope, cardboard box, whatever, won't be able to tell if its a 22 degree or 26 degree angle edge as it gets cut.
 
jackknife said:
Kyle, I can't say that you're really doing anything wrong as I have zero experience with those modern sharpening gizmos. Like most the old crocks, I've been free hand sharpening since I was a kid, and I carry a little Eze-Lap model L with most the handle cut off in my wallet.

I've always used the small circle method of sharpening, starting at the blades kick and making your way slowly to the tip. A minute per side and check your progress. Or the bottom of a coffee mug works well too. The 5-4-3-2-1-and your done is good.

The biggest thing all those sharpening fixtures are designed to do well is, get the customers money out of his pocket and into theirs. Learn to free hand and you'll be miles ahead.
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There is a lot of truth to what said here. I too like the small circle method of sharpening, especially if I am on the field.

Kyle, I would think the carbides on your pull thru sharpener could be pretty harsh on the blade, and they tend to remove metal quickly if you are not careful with it. And those serration marks you saw is the proof the carbide scraping metal off from the blade, instead of "sharpening" and the angle may not have fit the primary bevel all too well, that's why not the whole bevel is 'sharpen' uniformly.

One trick I learn for sharpening is the marker trick, where you paint the entire bevel black before sharpening, and if you are sharpening at the right angle, the marked area should all be removed uniformly. Personally, I love the Spyderco double stuff(for the small circle technique), and the Eze-Lap model L is a great option as well.
 
You quadsharp is a pull-through type sharpener that not actually sharpens but scrapes metal of the edge leaving a very jagged edge. If you look at the edge through a microscope, you would see that is is very damaged and more like a saw than a knife edge.

Smiths+Side+1+Coarse+230x.jpg


I would advise to learn sharpening on proper stones, either freehand or with a guided system.
 
Hard to be certain, but it looks like you used too much pressure on the coarse stone and developed a huge burr which has not yet been removed. Probably the hardest lesson in sharpening is learning to trust the abrasives. Pressure is not needed, the lightest contact will abrade the steel. Once that burr is formed, it can be very hard to remove.
 
comis said:
Kyle, I would think the carbides on your pull thru sharpener could be pretty harsh on the blade, and they tend to remove metal quickly if you are not careful with it. And those serration marks you saw is the proof the carbide scraping metal off from the blade, instead of "sharpening" and the angle may not have fit the primary bevel all too well, that's why not the whole bevel is 'sharpen' uniformly.

One trick I learn for sharpening is the marker trick, where you paint the entire bevel black before sharpening, and if you are sharpening at the right angle, the marked area should all be removed uniformly. Personally, I love the Spyderco double stuff(for the small circle technique), and the Eze-Lap model L is a great option as well.
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comis is right, those pull through sharpeners are really hard on blades. Very rough scraping of steel on the edge leaved a damaged edge behind. Go free hand on some sort of flat stone or diamond hone or even a old fashioned silica stone from Norton sold at Home Depot or Lower. Anything but the pull through sharpeners.

And the Magic marker trick is good to keep an eye on what your doing as far as constant angle is being held. Consistency is more important than what exact angle is being held. Thats why I love the small circle method, once you start on that side, you don't break contact with the stone. After a while, your eye, hand and mind will automatically line up the right angle. Muscle memory. Just don't over think it.
 
Gr
jackknife said:
comis is right, those pull through sharpeners are really hard on blades. Very rough scraping of steel on the edge leaved a damaged edge behind. Go free hand on some sort of flat stone or diamond hone or even a old fashioned silica stone from Norton sold at Home Depot or Lower. Anything but the pull through sharpeners.

And the Magic marker trick is good to keep an eye on what your doing as far as constant angle is being held. Consistency is more important than what exact angle is being held. Thats why I love the small circle method, once you start on that side, you don't break contact with the stone. After a while, your eye, hand and mind will automatically line up the right angle. Muscle memory. Just don't over think it.
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Great video!

Im going to put in a plug for the Worksharp guided field sharpener. $35 on Amazon. Portable and will handle all my needs. It sets in my home office/4 year old’s toy room and is used at least once a week. Typically just the strop portion. I have a lot of sharpening tools...way too many including a wicked edge which cost a fortune. The worksharp is pretty much all I use nowadays except for my really large knives.

I love the coffee mug and belt method. They work in a pinch and work well. They don’t work with super steels unless you have a couple weeks though. Which leads me to my rant against super steels. I fell into that trap once upon a time. I then realized I’d much rather have 1095 or Victorinox steel or Opinel’s steel (type escapes me for their SS although I prefer carbon) that I can sharpen in a flash. Who cares if I have to sharpen it once a week. I enjoy sharpening and it only takes a couple minutes. If you strop it every couple nights, you won’t even have to sharpen it once a week.
 
I second the Worksharp Field Sharpener! I just bought one earlier this week based on recommendations at BUSHCRAFTUSA forumites suggestions! Its AWESOME, even my 20y.o. son, who wasnt able to get blades sharp, could get “scarey sharp” edges on his knives after a few minutes of learning!

I bought mine at a local farm supply store, now my son wants to go back and buy one for himself.
https://www.worksharptools.com/product/guided-field-sharpener/
 
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