sharpening question

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Apr 5, 2009
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I bought a sharpmaker a few days ago and have read the directions and watched the video, but still have a few questions.

Whats the best before and after way to test a knife's sharpeness? It seems like I'm getting them sharper but its hard to tell.

Are there any special techniques to gettting a blade shaving sharp? Several of my knives came shaving sharp out of the box and I'm having a hell of a time trying to get them back that sharp.

Whats the difference between the UF triangle rod and the diamond rods? when ordering the UF rod, do I need two of them (one for each side)

Whats the best way of cleaning the sharpmaker stones?

I also want to get into hand sharpening with stones, what brand, style, etc do you guys recommend?


Sorry for all of the questions, i just figured I'd ask them all at once.

Thanks
 
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Clean the stones as shown in the video (scotch brite pad, and some sort of abrasive cleaner...I use comet)

UF rods are just that, ultra fine, and remove very little metal. The diamond rods remove MORE metal than the brown stones that came with the sharpmaker, and the UF rods remove less than the white fine stones that came with it.

if you're order UF rods, 1 WOULD work, but 2 makes life so much easier.

I usually cut paper before and after, or shave before and after to test sharpness, but I'm not an expert either.
 
One way I like to test sharpness is to run the blade against my hair. If you feel the blade bite, it's "sharp". There are obviously many other tests, but this one is fast and easy and doesn't remove all of the hair from your arms and legs. If my knife doesn't pass the test, it gets sharpened.

Make sure you are getting the edge first. If you are, try very light pressure and use the 30-degree setting. It should help.

If you like Spyderco's ceramic, they also make benchstones. If you want diamond, DMT makes some of the best.

The UF rods are the finest, and the diamond are the coarsest. Use the diamond rods to reprofile. The UF rods will give you that extra "hair-whittling" sharpness.

Comet and a Scotchbrite pad work well to clean the stones. Clean them often and you will notice a difference.
 
special techniques, yes, I suppose, main thing is getting the right angle.

testing sharpness, easy, forearm hair.

I got really smart (lazy) and bought an edge pro apex some time ago, just make sure you're even and steady with the sharp maker.
 
best technique i have found to test sharpness (is difficult to get knives this sharp, imo) is to take some paracord, place it on something solid and push straight down on it with the edge of the knife (do not slice) you will kind of hear a pop then it goes through the paracord and it should require a it of force but not a lot
If you can cleanly cut through paracord without pulling/pushing the blade in any direction and you cut every strand then you have a very sharp knife

I got this technique form BLUNTRUTH4U
you can find him here (don't think hes on bladeforums)
http://www.youtube.com/bluntruth4u
 
Howdy George,
I can't tell you it's the best method, but it works for me. I try to reflect light off the edge of the blade while using a 3X lens. If I can't see any light reflecting from the edge, the blade is sharp.

The only issue with a Sharpmaker is that the blade bevel has to match one of the Sharpmaker settings. Otherwise you won't be sharpening the edge. To check, mark the bevel with a Sharpie marker. Then take a few swipes on the sharpmaker and look at the bevel. If there is still black at the edge, the angle doesn't match and you aren't actually sharpening yet, just re-profiling.

UF stones are ultra fine. Use them after you use the brown and the white.
Diamond stones are coarser. Useful for changing edge angles to match the Sharpmaker's. I believe UF stones are sold in pairs.

I like Norton ceramic stones. I also like DMT diamond stones.
 
best technique i have found to test sharpness (is difficult to get knives this sharp, imo) is to take some paracord, place it on something solid and push straight down on it with the edge of the knife (do not slice) you will kind of hear a pop then it goes through the paracord and it should require a it of force but not a lot
If you can cleanly cut through paracord without pulling/pushing the blade in any direction and you cut every strand then you have a very sharp knife

I got this technique form BLUNTRUTH4U
you can find him here (don't think hes on bladeforums)
http://www.youtube.com/bluntruth4u


Never heard of that being a test of sharpness and what level of sharpness does it prove? A blade sharpened with a coarse DMT or finished all the way up to 1/4 micron will clean cut paracord and both could be considered very sharp.

To test sharpness you need to cut more than one thing and evaluate how it cuts the material after each sharpening stone.

Cutting computer paper would be a start, cutting clean with no ripping or tearing, push cutting, making fine curls. You also have many levels of shaving hair, rough cutting that feels more like its ripping out the hair, clean shaving but will leave razor burn, clean shaving with no razor burn, hair popping, hair popping without the feeling of the hair even being cut, cutting the hair without touching the blade to your skin AKA tree topping, and finally hair whittling. Many ways to test for sharpness but the best always seems to be with hair.

With any sharpening system there is a learning curve and it will take some time for you to get the "feel" for it. Don't worrie about the UF rods for now but do yourself a favor and get the diamond rods, the most important part in sharpening is starting the edge. Once you think you have mastered sharpening up to the fine stones and want you edges even sharper then get the UF stones.

For hand sharpening DMT 8x3 benchstones.
 
thanks guys, I still can't seem to get the knives shaving sharp. I'm practicing on a Scallion. What angle should I use? How many strokes? I've heard up to 100 on each side.
 
One good trick for seeing if you are making progress, and especially for checking how even the edge is down the blade, it to touch it lightly to your thumbnail at a normal shaving/slicing angle. I'm right handed and so will sharpen, then quickly (and lightly, you aren't meant to remove anything here...no whittling) tap the blade on my left thumb, with the cut direction towards the cuticle, checking the blade from heel to tip. A blunt edge will slide over the nail, a semi-sharp one will try to shave a little thin layer of thumbnail off, and a sharp edge will dig right in.

Once you are catching your nail well with the entire blade, the hair and paper tricks will undoubtedly give you better metrics for fine tuning. That said, this method works really well, and is very fast and easy, especially if you are just touching something up in a hurry.

Cheers.
 
While sharpening, I like to feel the edge by running three fingers into the edge in a shaving motion to feel sharpness and also in a stropping motion for feeling the burr, shave hair, cut paper, look at it under a light for reflectivity, etc. All these things can show up imperfections and spots then need more work. Example, if you slice paper you might find a spot on the edge that grabs and tears from the remains of a dent, chip or burr on the edge.

If you are not satisfied with the way a knife cuts scallions then that is a pretty good (or the ultimate) test and shows it is not sharp enough. Sharp has many definitions but in the case of a knife it is generally accepted that it means the two bevels of the edge come together and terminate at a point (or line if considering the whole edge). After the two bevels bisect at the edge the next step is to refine the finish of the two bevels.

You may be asking the wrong question. A slightly different twist is how do I get a knife sharp and when do I stop sharpening?

While sharpening a knife (free hand, on a Sharpmaker, belt grinder, or any other sharpening gizmo) you know when the two sides (bevels) have met when you form a burr. Did a burr form when you were sharpening this knife? If not you never brought the two sides together. You either need to take more metal off at the current sharpening angle in which case you probably need a coarser grit to save some time, or increase the angle to get to the edge quicker taking off less metal. Work with the coarsest grit you have (the diamond stick, brown sticks, or wet & dry sand paper over a set of the sticks until a burr forms. If you need to remove much metal then 80# wouldn't be to coarse. If a burr doesn't form with a few strokes I would move to a coarser grit. You could get coarser grits as mentioned before, using wet & dry sandpaper laid over the sharpmaker sticks. Trying to reprofile with the fine sticks could take longer then you are willing to invest and is probably a waste of time.

How coarse to start with can be a judgment call or it will become a matter of trial and error. The file idea would be good for reprofilling if you feel comfortable with free hand holding angles. If you do you probably don't need the Sharpmaker and you could achieve the same results on a coarser bench stone free hand. You would also then have the advantage of being able to progress through coarser to finer grits with a series of stones like 150, 500, 1000, 2000, 4000#, etc. Unfortunately the Sharpmaker only has two grits (three if you have the diamond sticks) both of which are in the middle to finer end of this progression.

You may be sharpening on the shoulder of the bevel and not getting to the edge at all. This could be because the Sharpmaker doesn't match your factory bevel angle and you are working hard to change the angle but have not gotten to the edge yet. Again did you get a burr all the way along the edge?

It this case, you are trying to change the angle that came on the knife to match the Sharpmaker (reprofile), and that happens to be one that is more acute (shallower) then what was already on the knife and it will take a lot of work on any of the Sharpmaker sticks. They are too fine for that. The Sharpmaker is not the best tool for this but coarser grits will help. Coarser is you friend here. If you want it to go faster you could also use a steeper angle. The 20° per side (40° inclusive) setting will go a lot faster then the 15° setting and is not a bad angle for a lot of knives. Any knife is not going to be very robust at 15° (30° inclusive). If they are already at 15° I would use that setting especially for a light duty knife you want to cut like a razor like a paring knife. With the edge at 20° the 15° setting is great for reducing the shoulder (making a compound bevel). Probably should state what kind of knives we are talking about in order to decide what angles are appropriate, but keeping the angle near the way it came or steeper and or one that also matches the Sharpmaker will be a lot less trouble. For soft kitchen knives (most of them except Japanese knives) 40° inclusive (the 20° setting) would probably be about right. For really hard knives or knives that will be used appropriately (not chopping and twisting on a cutting board) a more acute angle may be appropriate. You might be surprised how sharp a knife can be at even a 60° inclusive bevel.

Find out how you are doing with respect to whatever angle you chose on the Sharpmaker by marking the edge (bevel) with a Sharpie or Magic Marker. Take a stroke or two on the 15° Sharpmaker setting and see if it takes the marker off all the way to the edge. If it is just working on the shoulder try the 20° setting. To expedite reprofiling as much as possible use the setting that is greater then or closest to the factory angle. 40° inclusive on most knives will be very sharp and cut scallions just fine and hold up a lot better then 30° inclusive against a cutting board, etc. If you want to change the the bevel angle I suggest getting it sharp at the angle closest to one on your Sharpmaker first and consider changing it later after you know how it works when it is sharp at the original angle. I think you will find that is the 20° setting (40° inclusive) on most knives.

So, I would say the first question is, did you get a burr? Don't stop sharpening with the coarsest grit you decide to start with until you form a burr on both sides the full length of the blade. Next, reduce pressure and continue with light storkes until the burr is gone. Go to the next lower grit and repeat this process and refine the scratches and remove the burr you get with each subsequent finer grit. Like someone said earlier, after you get a burr on the brown sticks and remove it the blade will be shaving sharp. It will just be more refined with the white sticks or other finer grit.

For bench stones I like my Shapton Glass synthetic Japanese water stones which are a synthetic stone made from ceramic particles bonded together by some kind of binder. They wear more then Sypderco ceramic stones, but I think they offer the best compromise of wear and fast cutting. You can lap and flatten them and you can't do that with the Spydercos which are not always flat from the factory. The Norton combo stones 220#/1000#, 4000#/8000# are fairly cheap, pretty complete with 4 grits and they work. The 220# one wears too fast, dishes and the feel could be better on the fine ones but they are a great set for learning freehand on. I don't like diamond plates for finishing (in the fine grits) and like water stones better. The DMT's like the D8XX, D8X, and D8C are great for the coarse grits and reprofiling though. Most here seem to like DMT's, other diamond plates or Spyderco ceramic stones all the way to finishing. Final finishing with a leather strop loaded with stropping compound adds a lot to most knives. I wouldn't bother on soft kitchen knives but if you really get into it you probably will. This is where I get my Shaptons and DMT's. Here is another place for the Norton's with the flattening stone and instruction DVD.

Have you read this? It is a great place to start.

Gary
 
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