Sharpening softer steels, looking for direction

B

Bob6794

Joined
Apr 21, 2013
Messages
2,032
Having just spent 3 hours practicing free hand sharpening on a Victorinox paring knife on my 4in DMTs that I got with my Aligner I am thinking using something that isn't as abrasive will be a good answer to getting those softer steels sharper as it seems if I slip up on the angle the slightest for 1 stroke I ruin that nice edge I put on. The diamonds aren't that forgiving in nature, than again I bought that particular paring knife to practice on as I knew it exaggerate my problems more than other steels.

I was still able to get it quite sharp whether it was on the fine or extra fine stone, but that 1 slip up that could ruin all my work got a little annoying and made it near impossible to get an extremely good edge that I can get on more wear resistant steels. And unfortunately some of my favorite EDC's are SAK's, 440a, or carbon steel.

Right now one of the top stones that's on my list is the Norton Crystolon Combination stone which I've heard being mentioned numerous times. I've heard it leaves a nice toothy edge which I like on some of my knives. But how abrasive is this in comparison to say the F/EF DMT's? I've also read in the past where someone sanded it down a bit and used the powder on a strop which sounded interesting, so how was that done? And how did that work if you tried it?

Than I just learned of Dan's EZ Hone and I was looking at the 6in and possibly the 8in version which has 4 stones which according to one site is roughly 220 (silicon carbide), 600, 1200, 2500 (Coarse--Silicon Carbide, Medium--Soft Arkansas, Fine--Hard Select Arkansas, and Extra Fine--True Hard Grade). Though the hones are 1/4in thick, do I need to worry about them wearing out on me?

Than there is the Norton Fine India which I also heard good things about but truth be told the Crystolon catches my interest more. Than there is the Norton Economy stone which I may pick up as a quick stepping stone to test the waters first. And how well does the Norton Economy compare to the other options? And to my knowledge this is an silicon carbide stone as well, I heard the older ones were aluminum oxide is that correct?

Any information or tips be greatly appreciated, though it probably be a little while till I pick something up as I like to over research things first. That and I plan to build up my spare cash funds for another month or two unless I end up with the Norton Economy as I overspent on knives recently.
 
Before trying a new stone try applying lighter pressure ones the edge has been formed. Let the stones do the work for you.

I tend to apply a bit to much pressure and as you say, 1 wrong stroke....so I try and lighten my strokes and just let the diamonds do the work.
 
I am using the weight of the blade plus maybe an additional ounce since my fingers are resting on the blade to help steady it. Even when I lighten it up even more, a wrong stroke seems to set me back a bit and takes away the edge I worked for. I've noticed it doesn't need to be a full stroke either as even a partial mess up will still screw up part of the blade. So often times I may have 80% of the blade done right, but the other 20% is off slightly and won't be as sharp. This is me nitpicking and trying to be a perfectionist though. I put money that a strop with a coarse compound would fix these issues but I'd rather stop the problem at the source.

This is far more noticeable in the Victorinox paring knife but also my SAK's in general which unfortunately is one of my favorite EDC's, the other steels I have don't seem to be anywhere near as prone to this problem. Though I will admit the DMT's still remove more steel than I like in these less wear resistant steels. I tried for awhile now to get used to it and for the most part I have to some extent, but I think I need a bit more leeway in the form of a less aggressive abrasive to help me advance in my technique now.
 
I also find diamond to be a bit much on softer steels. You can tone it down a bit by using soapy water as a lubricant, but are likely better off with a different abrasive.

The Norton Econo stone or the silicon carbide stone currently sold at a ACE hardware are good choices for a cheaper stone to keep around. The Econo stone is a good buy, and the current ones are a lot flatter than the older ones. The SiC doesn't look as pure as the stuff in the Crystalon stone or the ACE stone, but work well anyway. These stones are still a bit aggressive on softer steels, but do a very nice job. They just work fast and can raise quite a burr if you go on autopilot. Because the abrasive is friable and breaks down sharp, these stones seem to work softer steels with less burr formation than diamond - light pressure in both cases is key, and always use oil on the SiC stones.

Is easy to claim some of the grit, no need to sand it or anything like that. If you had to do a bit grinding to reset your edge, the mud that forms from working the stone with mineral oil will be loaded with fractured SiC and metal swarf. This can be collected with a sheet of paper and wrapped around the same stone for a hasty strop. On the better quality stones this compound is capable of doing some real nice work, and lasting a long time as well.

A better way of collecting the grit is to use a puddle of mineral oil, and come at the stone at a higher angle, this will tear off more SiC and produce less swarf than if you simply collected the mud from a sharpening. This grit is going to be a little more aggressive, but can do some repair work as well as refine, so a bit more useful than the worked stone grit. Both will work but if you don't need to do any grinding, the intentional method works better. I keep a small length of clean hacksaw blade around for this purpose, and use the snapped off end to work the stone. Regular copy or writing paper works great - newspaper will have all the printed mater go into suspension when it meets the oil, interfering with the abrasive grit - better off with a clean sheet.


You can get some surprisingly nice edges with this method. I included it in a user's video for the Washboard, where it does an even better job, but still works very well wrapped around a stone. Can also do this with a waterstone, but in that case you should wait for the paper to dry before using, and the paper itself is more prone to coming apart when mopping up the grit, so need to be a little more careful.

I pick up with the SIC stone at about 10 minutes in.

[video=youtube;6Y2EMOQRLiA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Y2EMOQRLiA[/video]

This is the one with the waterstone grit - Same basic principle.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXr-FPME-jc
 
If using diamond on softer steels at all, such as with Victorinox blades or 1095 steel & similar, keep the grit extra-fine (in this case, literally, with the DMT), keep the pressure very, very light, and the number of strokes at a minimum. Check the edge after each stroke, as changes will come very fast. My mantra with soft steels such as these is: "Less is More" (smaller grit, gentler grit, lighter pressure, fewer strokes)...

I like using a Fine or EF diamond hone to set bevels on knives like this, just because it does the work so very quickly, in just a handful of slow, controlled passes. Beyond that, gentler abrasives on strops will easily maintain them; something like chromium oxide on very firmly-backed stropping media, like paper on glass/hardwood.


David
 
Obsessed with Edges said:
If using diamond on softer steels at all, such as with Victorinox blades or 1095 steel & similar, keep the grit extra-fine (in this case, literally, with the DMT), keep the pressure very, very light, and the number of strokes at a minimum. Check the edge after each stroke, as changes will come very fast. My mantra with soft steels such as these is: "Less is More" (smaller grit, gentler grit, lighter pressure, fewer strokes)...

I like using a Fine or EF diamond hone to set bevels on knives like this, just because it does the work so very quickly, in just a handful of slow, controlled passes. Beyond that, gentler abrasives on strops will easily maintain them; something like chromium oxide on very firmly-backed stropping media, like paper on glass/hardwood.


David
Click to expand...

Great advice. I remember the first time I sharpened a SAK for a friend (I learned sharpening on stuff like 154CM, S30V, VG-10, etc.) how frustrated I was with sharpening it. It seemed like everything I did after the first coarse diamond stone undid everything or made it worse. At the time I was sharpening mostly with diamonds until I hit the Spyderco ceramics.

If you have waterstones available, they will likely be a better choice for softer steels like this. At the very least, in my experience, I am able to do a much better job with a waterstone than with a comparable diamond stone for knives like a SAK.
 
Thanks for all the advice and information. The Economy stone sounds great, I think I pick that up.

I also changed up my technique a little bit more and mirrored HeavyHanded a bit more to experiment and well I just got it sharper than I have before so that's something I didn't expect :D. Now I have to see if I can do it again and it wasn't a fluke.

Now I shall try to repeat that again and take into the other advice I wasn't doing before by really trying to minimize the time it's on the stone.

And as of right now the only stones I have are the 4in DMT's that came with my Aligner which are the C/F/EF stones. So no waterstones or anything else besides some ceramic and diamond steels in the kitchen.
 
Bob6794 said:
Thanks for all the advice and information. The Economy stone sounds great, I think I pick that up.

I also changed up my technique a little bit more and mirrored HeavyHanded a bit more to experiment and well I just got it sharper than I have before so that's something I didn't expect :D. Now I have to see if I can do it again and it wasn't a fluke.

Now I shall try to repeat that again and take into the other advice I wasn't doing before by really trying to minimize the time it's on the stone.

And as of right now the only stones I have are the 4in DMT's that came with my Aligner which are the C/F/EF stones. So no waterstones or anything else besides some ceramic and diamond steels in the kitchen.
Click to expand...


I'm glad it was some help. I try to have all my technique and process be deliberate. I am not the most gifted when it comes to holding angles freehand, so slowly modified my methods to account for that, and try to get the most precise results I can anyway.

Another method I use often is stropping on plain paper to finish, at any grit level. If I'm not using compound or grit with oil, I'll use newspaper just as quickly as copy or writing paper. Wrapped around a stone (or Washboard!) it does a great job. Not so much on higher alloy content steels, but on most carbon and stainless it works very well.

Martin
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top