Sharpening stones

B

BossHog84

Joined
Feb 3, 2005
Messages
9
Hi everyone,

I'm just starting to get into sharpening my own knives, so I've been looking into buying sharpening stones. I'm a little overwhelmed by the different types of stones, grits, etc. I've been trying to research them on this forum, but its still a little confusing. Which stones are better to use, the watertstones or Arkansas stones? Is there a particular brand or maker that is better than others? I've read the the waterstones tend to sharpen a little faster than the Arkansas stones. Is this correct? Last,is there a recommended stone size. I notice they come in sizes 8"x2", 8"x3" etc. Is anyone size better than the other? Thanks for any help
 
rule of thumb is the bigger the stone the better. An easy and cheap(ish) sharpening system to use is the sharpmaker. it's good for touch ups but I feel that it should come with more course stones as standard rather then the medium stones. It's pants for reprofiling unless you get extras for it which I don't. I don't regret buying it though.
I like ceramic bench stones as they are less messy to use
 
A big stone is much easier to work on and a pleasure.

I use a Norton IC-11 (which is available from TruGrit) which is 11 1/2 x 2 1/2" (as I recall). It was designed by Wayne Goddard. Mr. Goddard says that modern steels are to hard and to tough for Arkansas stones anymore and that waterstones are way to expensive for what they give you and also not very fast with modern steels.

One side of the IC-11 is silicon carbide (man-made) which is in the same league as diamond for hardness but significantly less expensive. The other side is a man-made India stone which is aluminum oxide (also known as saphire) which is, again, in the same league as diamond for hardness.
 
There are a LOT of options out there. I'll narrow it down a little.

1. GRIT Basics.
Waterstones are typically Japanese, and use a different grit rating than US stones. See here. Basically, there's 6 levels. Really bitchin coarse, coarse, medium, fine, extra-fine, super-fine. DMT green is extra-fine, good enough for many people, but as you'll see there are others who like an extra step, like Sypderco's extra-fine ceramic benchstone, or a super-fine waterstone. The Sharpmaker comes with fine and extra-fine, more or less. So re-profiling an edge will take forever, but it's great for sharpening a blade that isn't too dull or damaged.

2. STONE Basics.
You've pretty much got three ways to go. 1 is to get a system that is very precise: The EdgePro, for example, uses a guiding rod and a knife vise to get a perfect bevel. 2 is a system that helps you freehand angles, like the Sharpmaker. I think this is bogus, but many here swear by it. Finally there's a benchstone, which I prefer. A large benchstone is best, unless your blade has lots of curves in it, that you can only get into with a small stone. I have an 8x2 benchstone, and it's great.
Now you've got 4 more options: Diamond, ceramic, waterstone, hard (Arkansaw stone, or oil stone). Diamond is fast, but not as fine. Ceramic is probably the best. Waterstones are more traditional and have lots of grits available, hard stones are kind of the same way, but less grit options.
I like diamond to start, and ceramic to finish.
Spyderco makes a great line of ceramic benchstones, look into them. DMT makes a lot of products that are great too, that's my 8x2, I have it in red and green (Fine and extra-fine). The green still leaves striations in the edge, though, so I like to polish it off with ceramic in super-fine, like a 2000 grit area (Spyderco's extra-fine stuff is in this ballpark).

Anyway, hope that helps. The key is to get a system that'll let you do anything you need to. You can reprofile on a red DMT stone (fine), b/c it bites to much, it just takes a little longer than with coarser stuff. Then figure out just how sharp you want it (once you start sharpening you'll want more and more hair-popping sharp!), and get stones accordingly. You dont' have to break the bank, just keep it simple.

_z


_z
 
I have quite a bunch of benchstones, but I've found that the Spyderco 302 ceramic benchstones work the best for me, and they can be had in medium, fine, and ultra-fine "grits".
 
If you want benchstones, I would also suggest the Spyderco benchstones, which are 8" x 2". I only have the medium grit, but will probably get a fine one eventually. I like them because they are ceramic, so unlike natural stones, they will probably last forever without dishing, and don't need oil, water or any other voodoo to make them work.

Note: I assume that you actually want benchstones, and not just a good sharpening system. If you want the best beginner's sharpening system (which you will not outgrow - I just call it a beginner's system because it is easy to use), I would recommend the Spyderco Sharpmaker.
 
Julian,

Yes I am looking for benchstones. I was looking at the Arkansas stones and was pretty much settled on those, but I thought I should research a little more first. I'm glad I did. I'll have to check out the Spyderco stones. Thanks everyone for the replies and all the help.

Oh, one other question. What are some good websites to deal with as far as buying knives, sharpening equip. etc? I've had a lot of good dealings with knifeworks.com. Are there any others that you folks use? Thanks again

Hog
 
Like Glockman, I'm using ceramic stones from Spyderco. I don't have the ultra fine stone but I'm very happy with the other two stones.
 
10" DMT duo-lap diamond plates are great. get a coarse / xtra coarse for reprofiling and stone flattening, and a fine/extra fine for touch up sharpening. Then get a couple of fine waterstones for that fine polished edge, something between 3000-6000 grit (wood carving knives, razors etc. you might also want an 8000-12000 polishing stone). Arkansass stones are quartz grains cemented by more quartz and cut rather slowly and are act more like a burnishing tool on steel hard enough to scratch quartz.

India stones and Crystolon are good for shaping and reprofiling but are pretty coarse, and I just like diamond plates better.

Norton waterstones are common and relatively cheap http://www.thebestthings.com/newtools/norton_waterstones.htm

Shapton pro are ceramic stones that don't really absorb water but use it as a lubricant to prevent clogging (made with chromium oxide abraisve in a resin binder). They wear slowly for a waterstone (except the coarse 120-320, but these always wear fastest) and cut faster than most but are more expensive. They also have their M5, M15, M24 and Hippo series.
http://www.shaptonstones.com/index.html

Naniwa ebi (shrimp/lobster) use aluminum oxide abrasive in a ceramic or clay binder. They are highly recommended as well, though most places in the US only seem to have their ultra coarse silicon carbide stones (golden and green lobster in 80 and 120 grit, but these wear very quickly) If you find a place that sells these http://www.rakuten.co.jp/sekinohamonoya/440372/452465/526009/526012/ or this http://www.rakuten.co.jp/sekinohamonoya/440372/452465/526009/624415/ grab them. Hidatool sells the 8k and 10k http://www.hidatool.com/woodpage/stones.html and various other stones.

Other places to find them
Japan woodworker http://www.japanwoodworker.com/dept.asp?dept_id=13098

Epicurian edge
http://www.epicureanedge.com/shopdi...&cat=Sharpening+Stones&websess=98360389989349

Lee Valley http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?page=43072&category=1&sid=&ccurrency=2

Blade Gallery http://www.bladegallery.com/accessories/accessories.asp
Tools for working wood http://www.highland-hardware.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Category=215

This place has nice plastic boxes that fit Norton stones http://www.cutleryandmore.com/details.asp?SKU=7090

This place has a good selection of different things plus 3m microfinishing film for scarey sharpening
http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/...een=CTGY&Store_Code=toolshop&Category_Code=TH

Woodworker's supply http://woodworker.com/cgi-bin/search.exe?BP=1

Deiter Schmid in Europe http://www.fine-tools.com/japwas.htm

Hand America has great stropping stuff http://www.handamerican.com/products.html
 
yuzuha said:
Arkansass stones are quartz grains cemented by more quartz and cut rather slowly and are act more like a burnishing tool on steel hard enough to scratch quartz.
Click to expand...

Which types of steel don't or won't sharpen on Arkansas stones, just out of curiousity?
 
While I've been sharpening on bench stones for over 30 years, I have to say that a Spyderco Sharpmaker 204 with the additional diamond rods is probably the most useful overall sharpening system I've used. It will maintain any blade shape as well as most serrations (not Cold Steel). It's easy to use and repeatable.

I've been tempted for some time to buy a large set of natural stones as I only have about 6" x 2" at the moment (which have served me well for years) but every time I think about spending the cash for an 8" x 2" medium hard Arkansas stone and a matching translucent or black extra fine stone, I can't justify the cost. Natural steels are fine with 440C, 154CM and all the plain carbon steels, but when you get into S30V, S90V, D2, you have to work a lot harder and longer than with ceramics and diamonds.

I recently added a DMT duo-fold with coarse and fine to my mix as a portable sharpening system to keep in my brief case and so far have been very impressed. I've touched up a couple knives for friends and it works fine.

One note of caution: go easy if you start working with diamonds. The will remove steel faster than anything else I've tried.

I have a coarse Norton stone, but have never cared for their fine stones.

John
 
Thanks for all the information folks. Its been very helpful. I never realized how many options there were for sharpening stones. All the replies will make it easier to choose. Thanks again.

Hog
 
Gollnick said:
...that waterstones are way to expensive for what they give you
Click to expand...
There are two large classes of waterstones, the natural ones, which are *really* expensive (like more than $1000 a stone), and the man made ones which are actually very cheap, but can get expensive if you want really high grades and mirror level flatness (Shapton).

You will get advocates for the natural ones, mainly for people sharpening *very* hard steels, they are usually japanese, and 62 HRC blades are on the soft side.

Waterstones cut very fast because the binder is open and breaks down fast, you can also add harsher grit to speed it up, I run a 200 SiC with 80 grit SiC lapping compound if I want to do aggressive hand honing.

One side of the IC-11 is silicon carbide (man-made) ...
Click to expand...
You can get waterstones in SiC.

...which is in the same league as diamond for hardness ...
Click to expand...
This is like saying Callisa Flockheart is in the same league as Butterbean in regards to fatness.

The knoop hardness of SiC is 1/4 that of Diamond, they are close on the mohs scale but that is *way* nonlinear and mainly just a ranking.

Arkansas stones will sharpen all knives, they are just fairly slow due to the fact they don't break down as readily, and are not as hard or as aggressive as modern abrasives like boron carbide or Silicon carbide. They are still used by many, on very hard and very wear resistant knives, like M2 at full hard.

-Cliff
 
Novaculite is a sedimentary rock composed mostly of microcrystalline quartz and is a recrystallized variety of chert. It is dense, hard, white to grayish-black in color, translucent on thin edges, and has a dull to waxy luster. It has a Mohs hardness of 6.5 (about the same as red rouge a.k.a. rust) and breaks with a smooth conchoidal fracture. A bit hard do find technical data on the net anymore with all the commercial clutter but this lists some abrasives and relative hardnesses http://users.ameritech.net/sharpening/mohs.htm
 
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