Sharpening stones

[Eazy_tom]

I can't seem to get any knives shaving sharp unless they are cheap kitchen knives. I have a Sharp Maker and a BRKT strop and compound, I haven't been able to get any nice convex edges going because I don't have or can find any fine grit sand paper. Anyways I have been looking at getting a nice set of stones to use instead of the sharp maker. I was looking at the diamond stones just because they cut away metal faster then water stones.
For anyone who doesn't know what I am talking about I am looking at these.
So what I am asking really is, are these good, do they last?
Would I be better off getting some Japanese water stones?

 

[Senang]

Get a Norton IC-11 and save yourself some headaches...Tru Grit in Cali carries them...They great and work fast....

 

[photonjunkie]

What kind of knives or steel are you unable to get shaving sharp? The ceramic rods for the sharpmaker aren't very aggressive so if you are having trouble with very hard, abrasive resistant steels it's possible you just need a lot more time to get that thin, fine edge - your cheap kitchen knives are probably made of relatively soft steel so you get results faster. It's also possible the bevels on your other knives don't match the angles of the sharpmaker (you can use a marker to help you there).

If you already have a sharpmaker, you might want to consider a coarser stone to set the bevel and get that initial sharp edge and then use the sharpmaker to refine that edge. The DMT Extra-Fine is pretty close to the shaprmaker brown rods (once it's broken in) so if you decide to stick with diamond stones I would recommend at least the DMT Fine or maybe even the DMT Coarse (which is close to the diamond sharpmaker rods).

A few more tips - DMT also makes the Dia-Sharp which have a continuous diamond surface and tend to feel more like a "standard" water stone. You can sometimes get both types (Duo and Dia-sharps) in a double sided format, with different grits, depending on the size. I can sharpen freehand but sometimes I just lean one of my dia-sharps against one of the sharpmaker rods (secured with a rubber band) when I'm am in a hurry or just feeling lazy. That way I get the angle guidance with a more aggressive stone.

 

[Eazy_tom]

What kind of knives or steel are you unable to get shaving sharp? The ceramic rods for the sharpmaker aren't very aggressive so if you are having trouble with very hard, abrasive resistant steels it's possible you just need a lot more time to get that thin, fine edge - your cheap kitchen knives are probably made of relatively soft steel so you get results faster. It's also possible the bevels on your other knives don't match the angles of the sharpmaker (you can use a marker to help you there).

If you already have a sharpmaker, you might want to consider a coarser stone to set the bevel and get that initial sharp edge and then use the sharpmaker to refine that edge. The DMT Extra-Fine is pretty close to the shaprmaker brown rods (once it's broken in) so if you decide to stick with diamond stones I would recommend at least the DMT Fine or maybe even the DMT Coarse (which is close to the diamond sharpmaker rods).

A few more tips - DMT also makes the Dia-Sharp which have a continuous diamond surface and tend to feel more like a "standard" water stone. You can sometimes get both types (Duo and Dia-sharps) in a double sided format, with different grits, depending on the size. I can sharpen freehand but sometimes I just lean one of my dia-sharps against one of the sharpmaker rods (secured with a rubber band) when I'm am in a hurry or just feeling lazy. That way I get the angle guidance with a more aggressive stone.

While I did post a link to the extra fine stone, I am looking at getting a set of three DMT hones, the coarse, fine, and extra fine.

The knife I am trying to sharpen is a D2 para with some tiny tiny nicks on the edge. Same problem with a Bark River Highland Special, but that will be sorted out once I get some sand paper. I couldn't get my benchmade 930 sharp either, but it came VERY dull.

 

[ExMachina]

What kind of knives or steel are you unable to get shaving sharp? The ceramic rods for the sharpmaker aren't very aggressive so if you are having trouble with very hard, abrasive resistant steels it's possible you just need a lot more time to get that thin, fine edge - your cheap kitchen knives are probably made of relatively soft steel so you get results faster. It's also possible the bevels on your other knives don't match the angles of the sharpmaker (you can use a marker to help you there).

photojunkie, yours was a very insightful post. :thumbup:

 

[photonjunkie]

For sharpening very dull knives, re-beveling and getting nicks out of the more wear resistant steels like D2 and S30V I would lean more towards getting an extra-coarse, fine and extra-fine. The jump from extra-coarse to fine isn't too bad (I often do it myself), it just takes a little more time on the fine to get the scratches out. Don't be surprised if the ex-coarse feels almost too coarse until it breaks in though.

Don't forget to clean the blade as you go from the coarser to finer grits, especially with the ex-coarse. The bits of ground metal will continue to scratch the blade as you work on the finer stones and it will seem to take longer to remove the deep scratches from the previous stone. I also flush the stone regularly while I'm using it to prevent the debris from building up. Also if you don't already do so, consider putting a relatively thin bevel on your knives with a microbevel - it will make it easier to touch up the edge.

ExMachina, thanks - I try to learn from my mistakes

 

[ghostrider]

I bought the three-hone set of diamond hones from Harbor Freight for about $10/set. I ordered two sets thinking that they would wear out fast. I was wrong. I've since rebeveled a Yojimbo, Waved Endura, and many others without having to go to a second set. I also picked up a 5" oval rod sharpener from Eze-Lap. I've used that on many knives, and even loaned it to a friend who used it for a bunch of his, his family's, and his friends knives. He uses a lot of pressure on the hone when he sharpens, and my oval rod is still going strong. I liked it so much that I ordered the 12" version. I paid $15 for the 5" oval rod (I think I paid too much), and roughly $29 for the 12" rod.

If the DMT products are superior (and I've no reason to believe otherwise) then it would be interesting to see how they perform. I'm happy with what I have and it works for me.

 

[KarlMaldensNose]

What kind of knives or steel are you unable to get shaving sharp? The ceramic rods for the sharpmaker aren't very aggressive so if you are having trouble with very hard, abrasive resistant steels it's possible you just need a lot more time to get that thin, fine edge - your cheap kitchen knives are probably made of relatively soft steel so you get results faster.

That makes sense and is what I always thought, until I got a Sharpmaker and found that harder steels like S30V and D2 respond to it faster and get sharper than softer stuff like 420J or whatever junk is used for SAK and cheap filleting knives. Is it just me or does anyone else find very soft steels more difficult to get really sharp on the Sharpmaker?

 

[winbag338]

You should be able to use the sharpmaker with great results. You may want to review your technique and figure out what your doing wrong.

 

[Gadgetaholic]

That makes sense and is what I always thought, until I got a Sharpmaker and found that harder steels like S30V and D2 respond to it faster and get sharper than softer stuff like 420J or whatever junk is used for SAK and cheap filleting knives. Is it just me or does anyone else find very soft steels more difficult to get really sharp on the Sharpmaker?

My SAK has 2 blades (large & small) and both are 'shaving sharp' which was easy to achieve using this:
http://www.knifecenter.com/kc_new/store_detail.html?s=LSLCKEY
I have also achieved good shaving sharpness on my Leatherman Wave and some other knives with the same $4.95 gizmo.

 

[Jason B.]

Start with the XXC, XC, and coarse dia-sharps first, it will make all tasks quick and learning how to use the coarse grits is a important part of sharpening. It will also help you with not using too much pressure trying to rush the finer of the coarse stones, something that can destroy them.