Sharpening System Comparisons Needed!

Alright... a couple months ago I purchased a Lansky Deluxe set. Worked well, except the angles would be different on different places on the edge. I sold it because I wanted something more consistent.

Now I am considering a Razor's Edge system, but I'm unsure about how well it would work on geometric tanto's. One thing about the Lansky was that I noticed it would round the corner of the blade slightly. How fine is the Ultra Fine stone really? Will it put a mirror polish on an edge? And since the clamp piece comes in contact with the hone, how quickly does it wear out, changing the angle of your edge?

Another system I am considering is the Edge Pro Apex and the stone upgrade set. The only thing discouraging me is the fact that it is going to make my wallet feel extremely empty. Does this system have problems of angles changing on different parts of the edge? The Lansky system always ground the tip too low angled.

And of course, the Spyderco 204. Again, I am afraid of it rounding out corners of the edge of a geometric tanto. I am also afraid it will round the point of my knife as the knife might scrape the sides as I pull it down and through. And how fine are the fine rods on this system compared to the Ultra Fine stone on the Razor's Edge?

And about DMT stones. Are there any angle guides out there? And also wondering how well these stones will work on a tanto point.

Thanks.


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Chang and the Rebels of the East!
Southern Taiwan Will Rise Again!
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D

D. Epstein

Joined
Oct 17, 1999
Messages
98
I'll give you a comparison. Lansky standard kit vs. three-angle bench stones vs. A.G. Russell ceramic crock sticks.

I could never get good results from the Lanksy, and as you said, different angles on different parts of the blade. Also, a little too much "equipment" there, if you know what I mean. Most times the blade would be duller after the use of this kit. I don't quite understand the popularity of this device.

The three-angle stones I found too difficult to use. Too difficult to get the correct angle by hand, but still better than the Lansky. Most times the blade would be slightly sharper after using this kit.

On the other hand, the A.G. Russell ceramic crock sticks, the least expensive of the three, is by far the best. I can get a hair-popping edge on any knife I own, which previously was impossible for me. Also, no need for liquids and it's highly portable as well. I feel no need to get another kit, this one just plain works with no gimmicks.

I think the A.G. Russell kit is under-rated because it looks too simple, but it's the best of what I've tried. It's also only about $30. So forget the latest expensive, trendy thing and just go with what works!

[This message has been edited by D. Epstein (edited 07-02-2000).]
 
Well the Lansky should be able to put a good sharp edge on it even with the standard kit. Guess it takes a lot of practice though. It was a hard system to learn if nobody shows you how to do it (about a year for me to figure the Lansky type system out).

I got my edges extremely sharp with the Lansky, much better than the factory edges, but the thing that really bothered me was the uneven angles. I wasn't so much for performance, but for form. Form over function for me. I wanted my edges to look completely even and extremely finely polished and consistent.

I suppose Edge Pro is my best bet...
 
I have used alot of different systems, including the highly rated spyderco 204....i was really getting depressed because i still could not get my knives sharpened the way i wanted them. the other day i went and got the Smith's Precision Sharpening Kit and finally success !!!! got my crkt m16-14 and my cold steel gunsite II back the way they used to be.
 
The pain of buying an Apex is momentary, the joy it brings is everlasting (think Hallmark is hiring?). The Apex will give you mirror finishes with ease. It will also give you precise and uniform angles. The Apex handles all manner of grinds. The blade is not clamped in place, but held on a bed. While a little awkward at first, with time this allows you deal with any angle change in the blade. Simply move the blade in relation to the stone while maintaining the same sharpening angle. I think the Apex is the best system I'm ever used and I've used just about everthing out there. I hope this helps and if you have any more questions please email me.

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"Better to reign in Hell, than serve in Heav'n"
John Milton
There are only two types of people; those who understand this, and those who think they do.
 
Haven't used the Professional, huh? Like the Apex, but on steroids. A really impressive peiece of engineering. If you can find one used, the wallet-pain isn't too bad.

--JB

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e_utopia@hotmail.com
 
Actually Rickmos, I also have a Smith's Precision kit. It's a nice Lansky type system, but the synthetic stone wears out a little easy for my tastes. Mine developed a big valley after reprofiling a 6" Buck Special. That was painful [for my coarse hone]. Their Arkansas stone is a very fine quality one though, one step ahead of Lansky's hard arkansas in terms of quality. Leaves a pretty clean polish.

Anyways, I'll check out the Edge Pro.

Thanks for the replies. The owner of Edge Pro is very helpful, he offered to sharpen one of my knives for free to show me the quality of his sharpeners. I'll check it out sometime, and if I like it (I'm sure I will), I will start saving for the Apex and stone upgrades.


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Chang and the Rebels of the East!
Southern Taiwan Will Rise Again!
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I've got the Edge-Pro, Skarb and Sharpmaker.

Edge-Pro is great, but don't use it much because of the set up and using water makes a mess. (What's wrong with dry stones!?)

The Skarb is small so I can leave it set up, but it requires oil.

Just bought the Sharpmaker. Easy to set up. Easy to store. Dry stones! Great video included. It works!

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Frank Norman
Frank's Knife Page
Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in his shoes. That way, if he gets angry, he'll be a mile way - and barefoot.
 
I love my Edge Pro Professional model. I was thinking of the Apex, but I'm one to go all out, so I splurged and picked up the Professional. I've tried the Lansky, Gatco, and the Spyderco Sharpmaker 204. The Sharmaker is fun and quick, but when I want to have total control and put a serious edge on my blade I break out the Edge Pro, and it's all I use anymore. True you are supposed to keep the stones wet, and water drips all over, but that's half the fun. Just keep a towel handy. As far as I know, as long as you keep the blade moving across the bench of the sharpener, and only sharpen the section of the blade that's on the bench, your angle will be consistent. Changing angles is a breeze, and you have a lot more control of your angles. It takes a couple sharpenings to get comfortable with the unit, but soon you'll be a pro!

-Wade
 
I've had the Lansky Diamond Deluxe for a month now, and it leaves my knives with an extremely sharp edge. The extra fine stone, on the other hand, doesn't give it a mirror polish.
 
Cool thread! Sharpening (and the better sharpening systems) seems to be THE most difficult thing to pin down.

I'm a little confused by Frank's comments on the Skarb. I thought one had to provide one's own benchstones for the Skarb. If you use, say, DMT's diamond benchstones why would you need to use any oil?

AJ
 
the skarb comes with a combination oil stone ( semi-coarse and medium/fine). However one may use any sharpening stone with the unit. At shows, we start with a dry ezlap coarse, proceed to ur combination stone; then i usually finish with a dry razors edge fine stone. Sometimes we will put the ultimate polish on a blade woth a Norton waterstone.
 
AJ,

You're right. I could get some dry stones and solve the problem. It's just the set up I've got now.

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Frank Norman
Frank's Knife Page
Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in his shoes. That way, if he gets angry, he'll be a mile way - and barefoot.
 
I'm not gonna say anything new
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just my .02$. I have & use Apex, Spyderco 204 & various DMTs including benchstone & diafolds. I use spyderco only for kitchen knives & to get the initial edge I use DMT. 204 IMHO is too slow. For all of my blades (non kitchen) I use Edge Pro Apex
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It's easy, fast, gives a very good edge. Once you get used to it, it's just great
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At the begining I had probs with the ceramic stick scratching polished blades but turnes out the stick needed some "break in" & my techniques too
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zvis.com
Have Fun,
Alligator
 
I love my EdgePro too. After I got the hang of it, I scoured the house looking for knives to sharpen.

I became so enamored with the product, we added it to our product line. We carry the EdgePro for $125 plus $39 for the stone upgrade kit if you want it. We include shipping in our price so that will save you a couple bucks. It's not on our website yet, but fire off an email to me if ever you're interested.

Tim

 
I have some sharpening equipment:
1. Set of DMT 6" Diamond Whetstones (coarse - blue, fine - red and ex. fine - green).
2. DMT Double Sided Diafold (fine/ex. fine).
3. SPYDERCO Tri-Angle Sharpmaker 204.
4. GATCO EdgeMate Pro sharpening system, similar to Lansky but seems to be better performed because doesn't change sharpening angles.

Really I could to satisfy all my sharpening needs with DMT whetstones. They are working nicely: you can get your edge sharp very fast and with minimal effort, water only is needed for lubrication, no doubts about flat surface retaining. They are very durable, I use them sharpening dozens of knives. My oldest DMT stone is coarse - I use it extensively for edge reprofiling during more than year - no noticeable wear out!
All you need to sharpen with DMT whetstones is free-hand sharpening skills and you will be able to sharpen each blade without any problem.
I use DMT whetstones mostly for thorough sharpening works, edge reprofiling or damaged edge restoring.
If edge extra polishing is needed you can finish it using hard Arkansas whetstone or ultra fine ceramic stone, this from SPYDERCO for example.
If angle guide is required DMT Aligner clamp can be used with Aligner set or with Diamond Whetstones as well.
DMT Double Sided Diafold is the best for field sharpening - light, compact and allows free-hand sharpening without sturdy base (table or working bench). And has two grits in one package. However for trip in wilderness I would advise rather coarse/fine version.

SPYDERCO Tri-Angle Sharpmaker is very nice device for less experienced (or lazy like me
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) user. It allows to retain consistent sharpening angle and minimizes a possibility to make mistake reprofiling your edge. Very easy setup, no lubrication needed. Allows to sharpen recurved edges. Has nice user's manual in printed form and on videotape. It works equally well on each blade length, you can sharpen even swords it you need and have enough patience
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I found two minor drawbacks only:
* it is a bit too slow when reprofiling edge, I would greatly appreciate additional coarse diamond rods;
* be careful and do not allow your tip to slide onto rod's side when working on rod's edge, this can round your tip.
I use Sharpmaker mostly for somewhat lighter sharpening chores and when I need to "steel up" very edge only. Also I use Sharpmaker's white rods in benchstone mode to polish edge after using DMT extra fine whetstone because it is a small bit finer.

My dream is to obtain SPYDERCO ceramic Bench Stones, especially this Ultra-Fine. I tried it at IWA'2000 gun show - mmmm, it allows really mirror polishing! Seems to be pretty hard to find
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GATCO EdgeMate Pro works quite well on blades up to 4 inches long. No problem to avoid secondary tip rounding on geometric blades. The finest hone has grit closely comparable with DMT extra fine (1200). Sharpening leaves really hair-popping edge!
Additional advantage - changing sharpening angles it is possible (really should be possible, I didn't try it already) to sharpen convex edges. I described my idea in this matter here: http://www.bladeforums.com/ubb/Forum54/HTML/000819.html
Problems:
* with longer blades the sharpening angle can be somewhat uneven in the middle of blade and near the tip and the heal;
* it is real problem to clamp up a blade with wide false edge or dagger type blade.

As to refined, accomplished and pretty expensive sharpening systems like these mentioned in this thread - in my opinion it is a trial to replace skills with hardware. For home user who has some knives and doesn't sharpen them daily it is not too sensible to invest some hundreds dollars in so expensive system.
Just my opinion.

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Sergiusz Mitin
gunwriter
Lodz, Poland
 
I'd like to add my name here to the list of folks that are extremely satisfied with their Edge Pro sharpener. I've used many of the other systems as well, and for my money, none of them come close to the Edge Pro. Ben Dale is also very helpful and a great guy to deal with.

I've mentioned this before, but would like to reiterate a technique I've devised to avoid the excess water problem that can be encountered when using the Edge Pro system. Rather than occasionally squirting the stones with water, I keep a small (maybe 3"x5") tupperware container right next to my Apex filled with about 3/4" of water. I also have a small section of an old terrycloth towel in the container as well. After every few strokes on the blade I just swing the arm out over the container and use the saturated towel to clean the swarf off of the stone. Works great and keeps the rest of the set up relatively dry.

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Semper Fi

-Bill
 
I sahll be the first to post about the Razor's Edge system. I have their Pro kit. Honestly, I was prepared to send it back and get a refund: I just couldn't use them guides!!! Although I by no means know how to use the guides inside and out yet, I have never gotten my folders sharper... period. The guides do wear and need replacing. Just don't do any relief grinding (see the Razor's Edge book or e-mail me if you do not know what relief grinding is) with the guides on. Also, the guides will grind in a thin edge, so you had better want a thin edge. Their stones are great and to clean them I rinse and scrub under water after every 3rd or so sharpening. Otherwise I brush the stones off with a plastic brush. Their steel kicks butt!!!!! That is one great piece of equipment for sure. Sal from Spyderco uses one but he takes the rods and places them in the grooves of his 204 and steels that way. However you use it that steel is a great one.

I am happy with the money I spent. I don't use the guides all that much to be honest, but I do use the stones regularly doing freehand sharpening and I am getting consistent results. The edge produced isn't a polished one but a very good one none the less.

I would recommend that if you have the $$$ get the video and an extra set of guides. I haven't seen the video but it has been recommended to me by those "in the know" (i.e. Joe T!). Also, with a spare set of guides you won't worry about wearing out the frist set learning how to use the guides properly. And when you do learn you'll get really great results. And the system does "teach" you how to freehand sharpen and it is easy to leave the guides off and try your hand at it anytime. I'm happy with my kit.



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"Come What May..."
 
Cool. I ordered mine yesterday. Should arrive Monday or something like that.

Thanks for the advice. I'm probably going to put two layers of duct tape under the guides so the stones grind away at duct tape instead of my precious guides. Duct tape does EVERYTHING!
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Chang and the Rebels of the East!
Southern Taiwan Will Rise Again!
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