Sharpening System

3

30-30 Cal.

Joined
Jan 1, 2004
Messages
243
Morning everyone,

Can you guys recommend a good sharpening system that doesn't cost an arm and a leg? I am now sharpening my knives by hand with diamond hones, but it doesn't look as professional as I would like. I'm looking for a sharpener that will leave a uniform line and has a polished look to the edge.

Dave
 
I use one of my belt grinders to sharpen, but I don't think you're in the market for a $2500.00 glorified sharpener.
If I had to do them by hand, I'd get a Spyderco Sharpmaker. It has ceramic rods of different grits set at a predetermined angle in a block. The only thing you really have to do in the process is make sure the blade is vertical when you run it down each rod. It works well.

As far as a polished look, the only way to get that is to polish it in some way.

If you have a bench grinder, or buffer, install a medium felt wheel and load it with green polishing compound, and holding the knife edge down, at a 45 degree angle, wire edge towards the wheel first, make a light pass, raise the knife to 25-30 degrees, and make another light pass. Repeat on the other side.

If you don't have a buffer, or bench grinder, glue a 1 1/2-2"wide by let's say 18" long piece of leather(smooth side up) to a similar sized plank, rub the leather face with kerosene to wet it a bit, then rub the green polishing compound into the leather. The kerosene will help get the compound into the leather, and I guess you could use paint thinner if you didn't have kerosene.
When it's dry, start at the end opposite you, and with the edge away from you, pull the knife backwards while holding at about 20 degrees, and slowly lift the back of the blade as you pull towards you. Don't go overboard with the lifting, you don't want to go to high, and roll the edge.
It's similar to the old strops the barbers used to touch up, and polish the edge of a straight razor with.
I hear you can do the same thing with a mouse pad also.:confused:
http://www.knifeandgun.com/catalog/buffs_186639_products.htm

http://www.knifeandgun.com/catalog/compounds_186640_products.htm
 
First I'd keep practicing with the diamond hones. I have difficulties with them due to the way they feel when cutting, it's hard for me to be consistent because I'm not compatible with the feedback from the stone. I've tried out numerous systems and finally settled on using japanese waterstones, I just like the way they cut and the feedback helps me get a nice consistent edge. Oilstones have always loaded too fast, and as I mentioned before I can't get a good feel when I'm using diamond, so my edges turn out looking horrible, even though they're quite sharp.

I've used the lansky clamp/guide system, and it produces very nice edges. The problem is that it's a pain to set up, and the coarse stone wears very fast, so when you move to the next grit up the flat stone and slightly rounded edge don't meet properly, and you spend a ton of time grinding more steel. If I did it over again I'd get a coarse and fine diamond stone for it to keep the bevels nice and flat, then finish it off on the fine stone they included with my kit, a pink ceramic of some sort.

The sharpmaker is probably one of the nicest "crock sticks" type sharpeners out there, but it is what it is, and using it for anything other than touchups and finishing an edge is a waste of time. The diamond rods are great, but for the cost of those you might as well look into one of the two offerings below.

Belt sanders are okay, but you want a low speed model, with easily available belts, a 2X72 grinder would be great as it's a very common size, so you can order almost any kind of belt without digging around for a supplier. I have a 2X42 from sears that I use for the occasional bout of stock removal or when roughing out new bevels on a finished blank or on my yard tools, the surface speed is too fast for regular sharpening though, it's very easy to burn the temper if you aren't careful. Most knifemakers start a new edge with the grinder, using a fine grit belt, and from there either just strop the edge or move to a stone to finish it off.

Reading around the Edgepro Apex has gotten consistently high marks for producing perfect edge bevels on knives of almost any size, I've never used one but it certainly looks like a great design, with excellent construction. The Apex runs almost 200 dollars though, that's approaching high quality belt grinder money, so before you plunk down the $$ it'd be nice to try it out first.
 
Mike, you can purchase/build a pretty decent belt sander for sharpening knives and light grinding for less than an Apex. And damned iff'n I didn't miss that wink the first time I read yer post. :footinmou
 
Steve / Mike,
I looked at the angle tutorial and believe thats a good approach, I use a block, cut at tha angle needed. Covered with a thin leather layer to protect the blade surface. I keep a series of angled wood blocks. I mark the bottoms with the angle in degrees. The big dual grit diomond 4x10 inch stones are nice. The wire edge removal is the biggest facter to me. Once you achieve the angle; it's when and how you remove said wire edge that counts. I like to make the joint, where the w.e. attaches, as thin as possible. When you remove the wire edge it should almost fall off, and leave you with that beautiful hair splitting keeeeeeenn EDGE! I confess :p I set that first angle, on a first time sharp knife, on the belt grinder, I even use those little wood blocks on the belt surface to set my angle. That no doubt is more than my two cents worth. I'm out of here. Fred :D :D :D
 
I just today finally broke down and ordered the Edge Pro - $390 including UPS Blue Label and a couple extra water stones. I'll leave the belt grinder sharpening to those that are good at it.

RL
 
i appreciate you guys providing so much information. I still don't know what I am going to get, but I sure need something. Sando, I saved your tutorial, good info.

thanks again,

Dave
 
rlinger said:
I just today finally broke down and ordered the Edge Pro - $390 including UPS Blue Label and a couple extra water stones. I'll leave the belt grinder sharpening to those that are good at it.

RL
Click to expand...
I have Tormek sharpener and it is the best i have found. It is the same price as the Edgepro but it can be used to sharpen everything else including scissors. (with the optional jigs ofcourse).

Its a great sharpener and it is alot faster than a non motorized sharpener.


http://www.tormek.com/index_gb.htm

Michael
 
The tormek is a nice machine, but it does leave the edge hollow ground. The stone is really large so it's not such a big deal, especially on light duty knives, but if using it on larger blades I'd recommend finishing on a flat stone for more durability.
 
yoda4561 said:
The tormek is a nice machine, but it does leave the edge hollow ground. The stone is really large so it's not such a big deal, especially on light duty knives, but if using it on larger blades I'd recommend finishing on a flat stone for more durability.
Click to expand...
You are correct. the stone is 10" so its a very small hollow. Ive had very good luck with mine.

Michael
 
And in light of all that I just noticed that the tormek runs a cool 400 dollars in most cases, and I think that definately qualifies as an arm and a leg, the edge pro systems do too, but they're really popular here I and I figured they deserved mention.

The most economical solution is to keep practicing with the benchstones, this is probably the most work, but will likely be all the more satisfying when you can consistently put a nice edge on a knife with one. Use a light touch and let the abrasive do all the work for you. I use a heel-tip-heel-repeat motion when sharpening on large stones. It took me a while to figure out the best way to handle the knife when beveling the edge on my strong side, develop good and consistent habits and you can obtain a very nice and sharp transition from main to edge bevel.

The lansky or any of the other clamp/guide types are probably the next best thing from the edge pro as long as you use them on <5 inch blades. Any bigger and you'll probably have to reposition the clamp multiple times, it basically becomes way more hassle than it's worth.
 
Fred,

Those blocks are Great idea!

Yoda,

If you anchor the stone, tuck your elbows in at your sides, lock your wrist, move your body, then lift with your elbow as you reach the belly of the knife; you can get a very consistant edge. It's not that hard.

The first time I tried it (and I was awful at hand sharpening) where I really concentrated it worked great! I checked the results with a small microscope. The edge bevel was way more consistent than I thought it would be.

ANY system you use won't give good results without perfectly flat stones (OK the Tormak probably wears evenly). You have to figure in the cost of keeping the stones in shape.

Also I really don't like those clamp things. One) the stones are small and wear out fast and unevenly. If the stones have even the SLIGHTEST dish you won't get a good edge. Two) the angle changes as the stone moves farther from the clamp. You can always tell a "Lansky" job. The edge bevel is thicker as it nears the tip.

My $.04.


Steve
 
Guys, what about the electric sharpeners. the ones used by chefs? Since some chefs have very expensive knives I would think they must do a good job.

I guess i need to get a good stone. But why a 1000 grit? Isn't that too fine?

Dave
 
Dave,

I don't know about chefs, but butchers really like soft steel (by most standards). They can put a wire edge on a blade in a heck of a hurry using a steel. They expect to use a steel very often all day long. Most of us don't like doing it that way.

Why 1000? Waterstones don't go by the same grit system as the west. http://users.ameritech.net/knives/grits.htm It's about the same as hard white arkansas.

The reason for 1000 is that it cuts pretty well. So even if you need to reset the angle you won't be there all stinking day long. And yet it's fine enough to make a very good edge, but not so fine you'll get a mirror edge.

In otherwords, for most sharpening tasks, if I wanted to spend < $100 that is the way I would spend my money. If I had more $, I'd get a 320, 1000, 2000.

BTW you still have to keep the stones flat, any stones. A good quality large diamond bench stone will work. I use 2 shapton stones and rub them together after every use. You can tell when they are flat again.

Rememer, this is just my personal preference.

Steve
 
If the hard white arkansas stones I had cut anywhere near as well as my 1000 grit shapton I'd never have bothered with anything else. I know that the quality of Arkansas oilstones vary a great deal, but I had no idea they varied that much. The white hard arkansas stones I have skate over harder stainless steels, and leave a finish more like the fine white spyderco ceramics.
 
I dont know what sharpener to get,,,But I do believe that to get the type of finished look you want you will need a buffer.

Many things can put a darn sharp edge on your blades, but I think a buffer can take every system just one more step higher.....

all the knife sharpeners listed here will work,,,some are easy, some are able to get your knife REALLY sharp,,,but whatever you use, the buffer will pick up where the sharpener left off and bring things to a very professional finish...
 
Yoda, Another Shapton owner! Yeah. I thought I was the only one.
 
Personally I like to do it on the cheap, wet-dry sandpaper. You can get it to grits of 2000+ from any autoparts store. For flat bevels put the sandpaper on glass, for convex put it on something softer like a mousepad or thick leather. The coin method and the wood block method of setting the bevels should work well with it though I haven't tried either.
 
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