Sharpening the Manix 2 in S110V

S

Soupladel

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May 14, 2020
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I have just picked up the Manix 2 in S110V and was wondering what the recommendations are for honing the edge?

It’s sharp out of the box but it’s just not quite shaving sharp.

I have the sharpmaker, would it do well enough at 40 degrees? I don’t have the diamond rods so would moving through the standard rods at 40 degrees work well enough on S110V to provide a microbevel to give a shaving sharp edge?
 
That shouldn’t hurt it if you’re just trying to refine the edge a little. I use diamonds on S110V but will touch up with the brown rods and strop with diamond paste. You should only need a couple swipes at the 40 deg setting but the strop is what will take it to the next level.
 
Yes it’s just a refinement of the edge.

I have an Endura 4 in VG10 and have been able to get reasonable results on it but it took more than just a couple swipes. I took it through brown rods, fine then ultra fine to get there but as this is my first knife with S110V, I wasn’t sure I would get the same results without the use of diamond rods
 
Eli Chaps said:
You want diamond for S110V.
Click to expand...
Agreed...as to why: vanadium and niobium carbides are both harder than Aluminium oxide (which is what most ceramic abrasives are), S110V has plenty of both types. If you use too soft of a abrasive it will lead to the iron being ground away but not the carbides, eventually the matrix weakens and the whole carbides can fall out.

Typically over 4% vanadium is when steels need diamonds, this has 9% plus the niobium.
 
Soupladel said:
is diamond required for day to day maintaining of the edge given it’s a hard steel? I might have though diamond would only be required if a more aggressive sharpening is required?
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You won’t need day to day maintaining, S110V isn’t really a steel that holds a fine edge, it’s not intended to. Instead, you get an aggressive high carbide edge that last a very long time and is highly resistant to corrosion. It’s generally not advisable to sharpen beyond 600 grit.
 
Take your brown rods and do some very light passes on the 40 degree slots and check progress often.

If the apex isn’t too bad off you should see it get a lot sharper.
Diamonds are the best option but I have used Sharpmaker rods to good effect on S110V.

Then take your wife’s diamond ring and rub it on the driveway and see how well diamond can cut.
 
Thanks for the responses.

It has been my intention to get diamond rods, i have just not had the need to as yet and was hoping i could maintain and perhaps improve on the current edge with the sharp maker without additional expense.
 
I'd look at a diamond stone, try venev ocb diamond stones. The Spyderco diamond rod for the Sharpmaker is at a very low grit and won't be what you're looking for as a finished state of sharpness. 800 or 1200 grit on the venev stones is recommended. You can get a set of 3 1x6 stones from that maker for about $100 which have low to high grits from 100 to 2000 (they say 2000 is an experimental grit for their manufacturing process). I got the Centaur set. After seeing Michael Christy use them on YouTube and personally testing for months they have been an amazing foray into hand sharpening. I am soon going to buy the larger stones from them. If you get these also get something like the Lansky Eraser Block so you can clear the stones of the metal dust that builds on the stone surfaces - must have.

Sharpmaker helped me get the basics down and thankful for the product.
 
Perhaps a visual will help folks understand.

KjzYCTy.jpg


https://knifesteelnerds.com/2019/05/26/new-micrographs-of-42-knife-steels/

This is what the microstructure of s110v looks like.

The white clusters are "carbides" they are hard particle inclusions in the steel that are harder than the surrounding steel structure.

They are what make the steel very wear resistant yet reduce the raw toughness.

There are different types of Carbides with different hardnesses.

The Carbides in s110v are especially hard due to their elemental chemistry with a good volume of them being harder than ceramic abrasives.

When one is using the brown rods rather than diamond they are leaving some performance on the table.

Why?

The brown rods will cut into the surrounding steel and break the exposed carbides to shape but not CUT the carbides to shape like diamonds can.
When the Carbides are CUT they can be shaped to a smaller radius better.

It's pretty straight forward.


You'll be able to shape a better apex with diamond for a steel with a microstructure like this.

At the end of the day, skill and technique with sharpening overrides everything.

Buying diamond stones doesn't instantly make one a pro. No "Pay to Win" here.


However, if ones skill and technique is solid diamond will make a superior edge for a steel like this.

One must respect the chemistry and microstructure of an extreme steel like s110v and respond accordingly if one seeks the highest performance a steel like that can offer if sharpened correctly.
 
Ok, I should probably point out that I simply don't have the hand eye co-ordination to maintain the correct angle when using bench stones, so my best hope for maintaining an edge is via something like the sharp maker or perhaps even something like the KME System which i am not in a position to buy just now.
 
Well, I'm in a good mood.

If you're interested, I'll set the edge on there for you to see what the steel is capable of if you pay the shipping.

Soupladel said:
Ok, I should probably point out that I simply don't have the hand eye co-ordination to maintain the correct angle when using bench stones, so my best hope for maintaining an edge is via something like the sharp maker or perhaps even something like the KME System which i am not in a position to buy just now.
Click to expand...
 
Soupladel said:
I have just picked up the Manix 2 in S110V and was wondering what the recommendations are for honing the edge?

It’s sharp out of the box but it’s just not quite shaving sharp.

I have the sharpmaker, would it do well enough at 40 degrees? I don’t have the diamond rods so would moving through the standard rods at 40 degrees work well enough on S110V to provide a microbevel to give a shaving sharp edge?
Click to expand...

I have a Lansky with diamond hones and I still can’t get S110V very sharp. There are all these YouTube videos claiming it’s easy to sharpen S110V, but I’m skeptical. I can get other steels sticky sharp, including k390 which has lots of vanadium.
My advice is don’t expect too much, then you won’t be disappointed.
 
Mark Spark said:
I have a Lansky with diamond hones and I still can’t get S110V very sharp. There are all these YouTube videos claiming it’s easy to sharpen S110V, but I’m skeptical. I can get other steels sticky sharp, including k390 which has lots of vanadium.
My advice is don’t expect too much, then you won’t be disappointed.
Click to expand...

The diamond stones available for the Lanksy aren't of the quality or consistency needed to produce a good edge on a steel like S110V. They likely are micro chipping your edge away. Extremely light pressure possibly will remedy the problem, to an extent.

In an experiment, I put Maxamet against Lansky diamonds and that's exactly what happened.

Like Maxamet, S110V requires a sharpening progression that consists only of diamond or CBN abrasives. The quality of the abrasive also matters a lot.

If physically possible, I strongly recommend freehand sharpening. Use the Lanksy as a safety net if necessary for the edge angle.

You could cap off your Lanksy progression with a 600 grit DMT DiaSharp or Atoma diamond plate. It's a great way to start freehand sharpening.

The Atoma will scream at you if you hold the angle wrong, which may be useful.

Freehand sharpening is not hard to learn and it's a useful skill.

A 45 degree approach to the sharpening plate will help maintain your edge angle. More towards 90 degrees will give you an edge with more agression. Medium or slightly higher pressure also helps stay flat to the edge bevel. Too fast, too slow, too long, or too short of a stroke can throw off your angle. Just lift your elbow to to follow the belly to the tip.
 
I’ll try it. I do own a DMT extra fine plate. I haven’t dared to use it on a good knife because I’ll probably screw up the angle. What the hey. No risk no reward. Thanks for the tip.
 
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