Sharpening tips on Smith 3 in 1 sharpener

[Yodasko]

Hi everyone! I have a Smith 3 in 1 sharpener, but I can't get anything sharp. I practiced on old kitchen knives and somehow I made them kinda worse. Any help would be very much appreciated. I am a very new beginner to knife sharpening. Thanks.!

 

[Tim the Wizard]

I'm not familiar with that particular system, but in general it is helpful to mark the edge with a sharpie to see where it is removed when you are working on the blade. Once you get it to the point where you are working on the edge, form a burr on each side and then remove it with progressively higher grit. Good luck!

 

[bucketstove]

Hi everyone! I have a Smith 3 in 1 sharpener, but I can't get anything sharp. I practiced on old kitchen knives and somehow I made them kinda worse. Any help would be very much appreciated. I am a very new beginner to knife sharpening. Thanks.!

Hi,
What are you doing?
Are you using the tungsten carbide scraper at all?
Can you keep the blade from wobbling as you pull through?
How hard are you pressing, does it sound like you're scraping away metal? Annoying like nails on a chalkboard?

All my old kitchen were very very very very very very very very dull and all had high angles and thick edges,
so when I tried tungsten carbide scraper, there was a lot of metal to remove
before I would even reach the edge
and I was wobbling the whole time ... i was clueless


so, pick a paring knife from your kitchen
as it should be the thinnest stock
also pick the newest one,
as it should have a relatively knife-like sharp-like edge on it,
not double thick butter knife dull (lots of work)

paint knife edge with permanent marker or sharpie
then with a firm grip and firm pressure so it sounds like its cutting
do some 10 pulls through tungsten carbide v-slot,
run it under water or scrub with tooth brush to clean the debris (metal shaving),
look at the marker marks, if the edge apex is still black,
repeat, repeat about 10 times (100 pulls total) painting

after it can slice paper after carbide sharpener, do some 5-10 alternating light force strokes on the white rods,
then see how the paper slicing changes


In this post of mine I link review and video about best way to use carbide scraper

The knife in the video was already in pretty good shape (not butterknife dull) just needed quick sharpening

The great tip is to listen to the sound the scraper makes and not press too hard or too light just hard enough to where it cuts/scrapes metal
Also a tip about making edge dull/reflective as an alternative to permanent marker

So give it a try a few times with one knife, get it to start slicing paper, then come back, describe what you did, ask questions , try new moves with diamond, get even sharper

 

[Yodasko]

Thanks bucketstove! I did what you said but it still Isn't that much sharper than when I started. I'll keep practicing though.

 

[Yodasko]

So I kept practicing, and it is sharper thwn before but not razor sharp. But still, yippee!

 

[Yodasko]

One question, should i not even use the diamond sharpener or should i use that before the ceramic rods. And how do i maintain a consistent angle? Thanks for your help.

 

[bucketstove]

One question, should i not even use the diamond sharpener or should i use that before the ceramic rods. And how do i maintain a consistent angle? Thanks for your help.

Hi,
It depends .

I would ignore diamond completely until you get comfortable with the slot/rods , or until the end of this post keep it simple in the beginning

See ,
if your knife is just dull
(not butter knife, edge doesn't look thick like the spine )
and not damaged a lot
(no chips , no reflective rolls from 6 months of cutting on ceramic plates )

then you should be able to sharpen that
to a decent level of sharpness (slicing newspaper well, maybe even shave some hairs)

using only the the ceramic rods (the flats) in something like 20-40 alternating passes,
or
using 5-10 pulls on the tungsten carbide slot
followed by 5-10 alternating passes on ceramic rods

this might take one or two minutes under ideal conditions.

For a beginner the most
important part to learn
is to be able to get an edge to be able to slice paper or raise a burr
on the coarsest stone,
in this case the tungsten-carbide slot.

After you get that down,
you figure out how to remove that burr (double angle deburr)
then try not to raise such a big one
so removing it is easier
all this is done on the coarse stone.


Now what these slot/rods do for you is come at a fixed angle of 25 degrees per side ( 50 inclusive)
That is high enough to sharpen anything called an axe a knife
fairly quickly, because its high angle, and tungsten carbide is "coarse"/fast enough
so you just have to figure out how to keep blade vertical (no wobble)
and use just enough required force required to cut

if you put the sharpener on a scale,
and touch your blade to it, scale should read under 1/2 lb ( or 1/4 lb if you can manage),
thats the force you should aim for
because the contact points on the slots/rods are small and thus the pressure is very high

Now, the diamond is listed as 750 grit
and ceramic rods as 800 grit,
but the rods will wear with use and produce a much finer finish

so you don't really need to use both diamond and ceramic after tungsten


the benefit of the included diamond bar is that you can freehand an angle
and on steels that would damage the tungsten carbide
diamonds are harder than vanadium carbide (high carbide steels),
vanadium carbide is harder than tungsten carbide and will cut it

so if you're dealing with vanadium/high carbide steels, start with diamond, raise burr/cut it off on diamond, , then if you want higher grit scratches (finish), finish on ceramic rods, and skip the tungsten carbide entirely


750 is a rather fine grit, but if you're using high angles (20-25dps),
it will work quickly enough for a few bunch of sharpenings


Now regarding the angle holding, if you're talking about the flat/guideless/diamond bar,
it involves keeping a finger on top of the handle (or blade)
for ex a thumb on spine and pointer finger on the side, stroking away from yourself
or going the other way, thumb on side and pointer finger on spine
or thumb on side and pointer underneath, stroking toward yourself
with the other three fingers (middle/ring/pinky) wrapped around the handle

This is single handed technique, like when you have stone/sharpener in your other hand,

Double handed technique is exactly the same,
except the stone sits on a table/bench
and you use your other hand to press on the blade to keep it flat to the stone,
slightly easier than using your top-finger (either thumb or pointer)
to keep knife-tip from lifting off the stone (tip wobble, brother of spine wobble)


You can always make a little wooden wedge (mini clothes pin 10dps) or paper wedge and put that on top of the stone (diamond) and use it as an angle guide.
Or you can tilt the diamond stone (lean against a wall/book... in hand) and then use it like you do the ceramic rods
...
and follow the curve of your knife, keep edge 90 degrees to the stone ... here is animation about that





Now And then double angle deburring could be tricky on tungsten slot (tilt to side)
so it might be easier to freehand/eyeball a ~40 degree per side angle
on the diamond stone, and do 1-4 ultra light alternating passes
before doing 1-5 light alternating passes on the ceramic...

But I think its best to keep it simple in the beginning, until your eyes/hands/brain adjusts and stuff starts making sense

 

[Yodasko]

Thanks so much! I will keep that in mind. I have heard that the carbide can tear the blade. Is that somwthing to watvh out for?

 

[bucketstove]

Thanks so much! I will keep that in mind. I have heard that the carbide can tear the blade. Is that somwthing to watvh out for?

Hi,
yes, that is where force/pressure control comes in,
the one video i linked talks about it,
basically if you press too hard,
the tungsten-v-slot will pinch the edge and the edge will buckle and tear
its difficult to keep pulling the knife through the slot (gets jerky/snaggy)
and when you go to slice paper it wont slice smooth it will be snaggy and catchy

its kinda like shaving a stick of wood (pencil),
if you aim for and bite off thin tiny shavings, , its easy going, you have control and precision,
you leave behind "smooth" cuts,
but if you're using a lot of force, if you bite off too much / too deep,
your stroke isn't smooth its jerky, and you end up with a rough finish, wood splitting and even splinters (broken pencil)

I've only been sharpening for less than two years,
I tried tungsten carbide sharpeners for years before ,
but I couldn't figure it out , butter knives are dull
Only after figuring out freehand on bench stone,
did I come across the video below,
and now I can get results


You can see some magnified pictures here
Long term carbide scraper use
This guy flattens his carbide scraper to improve results, that is hardcore
The 6 dollar carbide scraper and you! (with micrographs)


The video I linked in that link I posted earlier video on how to get the good results
[video=youtube;lgQKgqQEj6g]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgQKgqQEj6g[/video]
And from the related discussion thread,
How to get the bad results (press harder), starts of with very sharp knife, pulls through a few times, its still very sharp, then presses harder, and its snag city
[video=youtube;U9XIO4gVMeQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9XIO4gVMeQ[/video]

 

[deltaboy]

Thanks Folks.

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

Thanks so much! I will keep that in mind. I have heard that the carbide can tear the blade. Is that somwthing to watvh out for?

For the effect on the edge, drag a piece of paper cardstock (like a 3" x 5" recipe card) through the v-slot created by an open pair of scissors. Most carbide scrapers' cutting edges are oriented exactly like the scissors' edges, and the scraper's angled edges can grab the knife's edge, pinching it and then literally tearing the steel as the knife's edge is drawn through. With the 3" x 5" card, it's edge will be ripped & tattered by scissors in the same way. The effect will be 10X as bad with the use of even heavier pressure.


David

 

[HeavyHanded]

Thanks so much! I will keep that in mind. I have heard that the carbide can tear the blade. Is that somwthing to watvh out for?

Its very important to use light pressure with these.

From a practical standpoint they work similar to a single tooth file. As such, if the edge is really dull and rounded you might apply a bit more force initially to get the carbide cutters to catch and begin removing steel. Once you can feel some drag, lighten way up. Stop and clean the teeth with a toothbrush every few passes.

Very important - swap sides every few passes as well - maybe every time you stop to clean it, swap sides.

The carbide inserts have defects in them and if you saw away with the same side, same defects hitting the same region it will undercut the steel and leave a very weak ledge (maybe) that can come loose, bind in the inserts and tear etc. You can avoid this almost entirely by switching sides often.