Sharpening tips

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Gradyw

Joined
Jan 23, 2017
Messages
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I am a beginner freehand sharpener and am looking for every bit of advice I can get.. currently the only problem I am having that I can't figure out how to work on is sharpening the very beggining of the edge... not the tip but the heel? Even when I concentrate on that part it seems like it just won't hit the stone on any of my knives for the most part.. and a lot of times when i am doing this my handle or another part of the knife scrapes the side of whatever stone I'm using. Any advice would be very helpful even if it's not specifically for that. Holding the angle seems easy. Finding it and keeping it from stone to stone is the hard part for me.
 
Gradyw said:
I am a beginner freehand sharpener and am looking for every bit of advice I can get.. currently the only problem I am having that I can't figure out how to work on is sharpening the very beggining of the edge... not the tip but the heel? Even when I concentrate on that part it seems like it just won't hit the stone on any of my knives for the most part.. and a lot of times when i am doing this my handle or another part of the knife scrapes the side of whatever stone I'm using. Any advice would be very helpful even if it's not specifically for that. Holding the angle seems easy. Finding it and keeping it from stone to stone is the hard part for me.
Click to expand...
Hi,
which stones are you using? which knives are you sharpening?
How wide is the stone? How long is the knife?

Some stones you can flip on their side for a narrower surface, or use a corner,
to get at the heel

Its also not unheard of for heel area to be unground or just thicker and need more attention than the rest of the blade
the same can be true for the tip (fatter)


Yes, finding the angle when switching can be tedious,
it helps not to switch in the first stage of sharpening (shaping, or raising a burr)

One solution can be a wedge (triangle) you can use as an angle guide (lean blade against it)
or simply leaning the stone at an angle and keeping the blade vertical (or horizontal) ...
 
Well I have a srk cold steel san mai a buck 110 and a centafante3... I'm using dmt coarse fine extra fine and a spyderco ultra fine to finish... for some reason it seams once I get to that stone I am making a microbevel with a mirror finish instead of the whole edge and I have no idea why... like I said I use quarters to keep my angle consistentnt for now as a begginner so I don't know how that is happening
 
Gradyw said:
Well I have a srk cold steel san mai a buck 110 and a centafante3... I'm using dmt coarse fine extra fine and a spyderco ultra fine to finish... for some reason it seams once I get to that stone I am making a microbevel with a mirror finish instead of the whole edge and I have no idea why... like I said I use quarters to keep my angle consistentnt for now as a begginner so I don't know how that is happening
Click to expand...
Hi,
The good news is only the very apex of the edge needs to be polished, nothing wrong with microbevels :)

See what is happening is you're increasing the angle
or holding it more steadily, with the spyderco ultra fine stone

Did you tape the quarters together so they don't shift?
Are you putting the quarters on the same part of the spine each and every time?
How many hands are you using to hold the knife while your sharpen?

See when you're sharpening freehand there is always some wobble creating curvature,
esp with one hand versus two hands,
esp if you dont have any fingers on the blade
when I started two years ago, I was using one hand,
and I had lots of wobbling even with a wedge for angle reference
i had a tendency to lean towards the shoulder of the bevel (back towards spine)
knife would get sharp but it will be very noticeably convex

If you paint the edge bevel with a marker and take a stroke or two you can which part of the bevel you're hitting


if you want a flatter edge , and you're not wobbling intentionally by wobbling your wrist,
change your grip,
when going away from yourself, keep thumb on spine (of blade or handle),

when going toward yourself , keep thumb on the side (of blade or handle) like a pinch grip
you can also use index finger on spine but usually not required

if you're not holding the stone in the other hand, you can use your other hand to
to put a finger or two close to the edge to increase control
and if its a wide enough blade you can even hook a finger on the spine

it also helps to keep more of the edge on the stone by the blade diagonally across the stone

naturally going slower also helps for control, but that can get annoying :)

you can always lean your stones horizontally or vertically sharpmaker style
FTHZV98H9T4QPH9.RECTANGLE1.jpg
 
I just accidentally reported this forum or a msg with my response sorry haha. I appreciate all you guys advice it is very helpful.. and yes I use two hands and set the quarters up the same... I think I have a very good knowledge of sharpening because of all the reading and YouTube videos I have watched i think my main downfalls now just come with experience... I am getting great shaving sharp results I just don't understand why I can't get the full edge mirrored... I guess I'm doing something wrong or not realizing it because I have seen ppl with the same setup as me and claim to get full mirror edges..i use dots... coarse,fine, and extra fine to the uf syderco... is there any reason that setup wouldn't give a full mirror polish?
 
Bgentry that is a good guide to follow... I definitely found some very useful information in there thank you
 
Gradyw said:
I just accidentally reported this forum or a msg with my response sorry haha. I appreciate all you guys advice it is very helpful.. and yes I use two hands and set the quarters up the same... I think I have a very good knowledge of sharpening because of all the reading and YouTube videos I have watched i think my main downfalls now just come with experience... I am getting great shaving sharp results I just don't understand why I can't get the full edge mirrored... I guess I'm doing something wrong or not realizing it because I have seen ppl with the same setup as me and claim to get full mirror edges..i use dots... coarse,fine, and extra fine to the uf syderco... is there any reason that setup wouldn't give a full mirror polish?
Click to expand...
Hi,
Are you sure others have reported successful mirror polish with this progression (got link)?

If its not angle control,
then its either
not spending enough time on each subsequent stone to erase the previous stones scratches
or using too much force and not enough lube
if you use less force the diamonds won't cut to full depth, thus they'll leave a finer finish

so if you're not using it use lube (soapy water ) and use lighter force

or if you are using soapy water but it is not thick enough for the force you're using
try a thicker lube like baby oil
or if thats too thick and you're not even making contact with the abrasive
try 1 part baby oil 1 part dishsoap 4 parts water

the rule of thumb is always lube :) coarser grits thicker lube, finer grits thinner lube
 
Well that may help that is one think I don't use is any water or lube... search YouTube for mirror polish Davis is his name
 
Freehand sharpening mirror polish with diamonds... that is the title. He claims to get it and focuses on edge but you can't really see it good enough. Best I can do is get very light scratches but it is close.. no matter how much more I sharpen it won't go all the way polished... seems like it should right? May extra fine stone is fairly new so I still have some breaking in to do but It just seems like the uf won't take all of them out when it gets to that point
 
I developed a method to guarantee the angle which is very easy. It´s "almost freehand"... You may try it, I was upset for not being able to keep the same angle between sides of the knife. I´ll try to explain my method (nothing fancy but works flawlessly).
1 - Build a triangular block with a ramp of 15 degrees to support the knife.
Preferably made of rubber, to avoid slipping and scratching. Some knifes can be support under the handle, some by the blade. To compensate for the blade or handle included angle, in certain cases I use a shim, sometimes I check the angle with an Android Inclinometer app.
2 - Instead of rubbing the knife on the stone, I rub the stone on the edge, parallel to the table.
It´s easy to visually mantain the stone horizontal and more, your fingers under the stone touching the table lightly help keep the stone horizontal.
3 - For the straight section it´s easy. For the belly and tip you need to rotate the blade so as to mantain the stone perpendicular to the edge. Normally 2 positions plus the one for the straight section will suffice.
I don´t know if these pictures can be seen by all:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3BtkRi-p-adNEVBMjBBYWJOT1k/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3BtkRi-p-addmRISGZuT3VXbk0/view?usp=sharing
Hope this can help.
 
I've been wanting to make an angle but I have not yet thought about it long enough to figure out how to make one that is going to be the angle I want. I either switch hands when I switch sides which I am not good with my left hand or just sharpen from the other side of the stone which I think most ppl do... only bad thing about that is I can not see how high I am raising my knife so if I'm using quarters I'm only relying on them
 
I always hold the knife with the left hand and the stone with the right hand. Using my block, I rotate the block so the lower part faces me and rotate the knife so that the back of the blade faces me. Build a prototype block of 15 degrees and try with a low value knife, you will be amazed with the result. See the picture below, the cryo on the bottom is factory ground, the top one was redone with my method.
Regarding the heel, I think some knifes have an awful heel, difficult to sharpen. The cryo has a high thickness on the heel, which I can´t sharpen, so I ground a "choil" to allow sharpening.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3BtkRi-p-adWnQ5aDhOZ092WE0/view?usp=sharing
 
Gradyw said:
Freehand sharpening mirror polish with diamonds... that is the title. He claims to get it and focuses on edge but you can't really see it good enough. Best I can do is get very light scratches but it is close.. no matter how much more I sharpen it won't go all the way polished... seems like it should right? May extra fine stone is fairly new so I still have some breaking in to do but It just seems like the uf won't take all of them out when it gets to that point
Click to expand...
Hi,
ok I went and "seent it" that one :D
i looked using the highest quality/resolution available,
i'd call it a mirror, but you can see some coarser scratches near tip still visible
i also saw another video, where you couldn't see any coarser scratches, but the lighting wasn't as strong as in other video Free Hand Sharpening: Butter Knife Dull to Hair Whittling Mirror Polish, Pt. 2 of 2

the finest stone can't take out the coarsest scratches
so if you see "whiskers under glass" you need to go coarser stone to remove the scratches
this is what can be very frustrating about mirror polishing, doing all this work to find out you moved on too soon

this guy had success DMT continuous and mirror finish questions
 
Well bucketstove that may be all I need to know thanks! I have recently made wedges of a mitre saw so I know I'm keeping the right angle. Def getting a full mirror micro bevel looking under a 60x pocket. Microscope... I sharpened my two good folders a little lower angle then fifteen degrees so I'll never have a mirror with those or not for a very long time.. that does make a lot of sense though just wish I would've made these wedges sooner..
 
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