Sharpening Unshapened Swords

bquinlan

bquinlan

Joined
Jan 5, 2001
Messages
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I'm hoping that someone here can help me...

I have two swords that I got from a friend years ago. He told me they were originally purchased in England, probably from museum gift shops.

The blades of both swords are marked as having been made by Wilkinson in England. One appears to be an officer's dress saber. The other is a reproduction bastard sword with a long straight blade and a two-handed grip. The blades are mirror-polished but I don't think they are chromed. They both come to an edge, but were clearly never sharpened.

While these swords appear to have been made for display rather than function, they are not cheap wall hangers. I'm trying to determine whether they are expensive wall hangers. :rolleyes:

Can anyone advise me on whether sharpening these weapons is likely to be practical or disasterous? They are pretty, but I feel silly having something that looks like a sword but could only function as a club.

If sharpening makes sense, can you give me anysuggestions on how to go about it?

--Bob Q
 
<b>DO NOT sharpen the Wilkinson!</b>

Don't modify it in any way. Wilkinson swords are VERY expensive and many have a great deal of collector value.

For more information, see here...
http://www.esa-swords.com

As to the other sword, I'm afraid I need a little more information than you've given me so far.
Detailed closeup pictures would be best, but failing that, please examine the sword carefully and describe ANY marks you may find. Also, measurements of bladelength, width at hilt, amount of taper, grip style and covering, pommel style, etcetera.

The more information you provide, the better the chance we can figure out what it is.
Odds are however, if it came part and parcel with a Wilkinson, it may be another fairly valuable piece.

Let us know asap.
(if you can't post pics, but can TAKE them, email them to me.)
 
Here are my first attempts to take pictures of my larger sword. Try not to laugh too hard at my photographic "skills". :)

bastard.jpg

bastard_blade.jpg

bastard_logo.jpg

bastard_w.jpg

bastard_blade.jpg


Do the pictures provide enough detail to make some guesses about what I've got? I would be grateful for any pointers you can give me.

--Bob Q
 
Here are pictures of my Wilkinson sabre...

sabre1.jpg

sabre2.jpg

sabre_logo.jpg

sabre_star.jpg

sabre_guard.jpg


I couldn't get a decent picture of it, but one thick edge of the blade near the guard, just before it narrows down to the cutting edge, has a serial number: 107326

Can you tell me anything about this one?

Thanks again!

--Bob Q
 
Actually those pictures are pretty good. Swords are notoriously hard to photograph because of glare etc. They both look like Wilkinson swords to me. I do not collect the things so I could not say if they have any value or not although especially with the "broadsword" I would suspect not.
 
I don't think I would touch either one of these. The second sword is a military dress sword, and while I am not sure what the larger sword is it appears to have some value. You can get a sharpened sword for alot less then what it will cost you if you sharpen either of these. If nothing else, sell them or trade them for something you are more comfortable with.

n2s
 
The larger sword appears to be the Wilkinson Model 305 "Clan Sword."
This is a model from their "Presentation Sword" line and is still a current production item.

Price new, 645 dollars. (s&h not included)

As to the dress saber, I still haven't found this exact model yet, but I'm still looking.
 
Thanks to everyone who responded. It is good to learn a bit more about these swords.

Ken: I'd be delighted if you can turn up more details on the saber. Thanks for identifying the "Clan Sword" for me!

--Bob Q
 
FOUND it!
Turns out I was making things way too hard on myself. I was looking for antique and out of date models, and this one is also current production.

The saber is the current issue "Air Force Sword" for AF officers in Australia, Canada, Great Britain, New Zealand, Sri Lanka, and other Commonwealth Air Forces.

There are two grades of this sword, but as far as I can tell the only difference is in the scabbard which is described as "gold plate, semi-ornate" for officers "below air rank" and "gold plate, ornate" for "air rank officers." (Perhaps one of our forum members from the UK can elaborate on that for the sake of us poor provencial Yanks?) :D

Without scabbard, the Air Force sword currently sells for 605 pounds british sterling, which, on today's market equals 872.41 US dollars.
(Now I wish I'd just kept my mouth shut and offered to trade you a couple Del Tins for it!) :D

A note on construction;
The AF sword is based on the Navy Pattern sword, with the major modifications being the eagle head pommel and obviously, air force specific embellishments. The grip is wood with genuine white ray skin covering, the "bird" on the face of the guard is the Albatross cartouche of the Commonwealth Air Forces.

BTW,
If you should wish to obtain a scabbard for this sword, they are available, as are the sword knots generally found on them, however the cost of a sword knot and "air rank" scabbard nearly equals the cost of the sword alone.

Thanks for posting this, I had fun hunting it down.
:D
 
An added note on the two swords.

The Wilkinson "Presentation Swords" generally possess either a chrome plated or stainless steel blade, but the Military swords are Carbon steel blades polished and left in the white. Obviously the Air Force saber should receive regular care and maintenance and neither (as a matter of good practice) should be stored in the scabbard. (If you happen to acquire them.)
 
I wasn't swift enough to take a picture of it, but I do have the scabbard for my Air Force Sword. I suspect it is the less fancy of the two, since it doesn't have a lot of engraving on the gold. It did not come with a tassle.

I am surprised that the Air Force Sword is uncoated carbon! Mine has been kept in the scabbard for something like ten or fifteen years without any attention and it has not developed a spot of rust. I had assumed it was either stainless or chromed! The surface still shows a mirror polish without any prints or other signs of deterioration.

How should these swords be cared for and stored?

Thanks again for all your help. I'm getting a real education here!

--Bob Q
 
It is a little surprising that it's gone that long without maintenance and developed no rust, but it's possible your sword is still wearing the original shipping wax. (Some makers put a thin film of a wax like substance on their blades as a rust inhibitor) Other than that, the only thing I can think of that may have saved you is the (relatively) low humidity in your part of the country.

Caring for your swords is a fairly easy thing to do.

Never store your sword in scabbard. This provides an excellent opportunity for condensation to form on the blade and can often times ruin them.

Swords should always be stored either hanging, laid flat, or tip up if stored standing.

Good quality carbon steel blades with a high polish are more rust resistant than one might think. This is a very good reason NOT to sharpen your blades, as sharpening exposes the steel to greater risk of rust.

Whether a plated or "in the white" blade, your swords will benefit from the regular application of a LIGHT film of oil. A heavy coat of oil will serve to trap dust particles which in turn will hold moisture agains the blade and invite rusting.

With an antique or highly collectable type sword, this is about as far as one should go with normal maintenance.

A gentle polishing of the hilt with a soft, lint free cloth is not out of order. USE NO ABRASIVES! If accumulated dust is a problem, try cleaning with rubbing alcohol and Q-tips. Remember, Gold plate disappears quickly when exposed to any sort of abrasive cleaner!
 
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