Sharpening with Stones

Thomason

Thomason

Joined
Nov 28, 2002
Messages
9,375
I've been practicing more and more using stones for sharpening. Lo and behold, I think that I'm finally getting the hang of it. I do have a couple of questions for you "stoners" out there. Some say use water, some say use oil, I believe John Juranitch of Razor Edge says sharpen dry. I have been using the dry method with pretty good results and kind of like the idea, mostly because of no mess. What think ye knuts?
The other thing I wanted to ask about is quality of stones. I have seen some Arkansas stones that were kind of expensive. On the other end of the spectrum is the typical Norton from the hardware store. I'm sure any would work but does a higher price usually mean a better quality and does it make a difference?

thanks, guys
 
The synthetic Norton's are good stones, especially for establishing a new bevel. They're better than the cheaper chain hardware store carborundum hones, usually. And for some reason they generate a toothy edge (people who practice cutting free hanging ropes swear by the edges they get on a Norton). I have a big old black Arkansas stone, inherited from a great uncle, which I treasure... it takes the wire edge off my carbon steel blades (52100, Carbon V, 1095), once I've set a new bevel or edge, and it's all I need to maintain that edge for a long time. For stainless alloys (ATS-34, VG-10), and others with significant chromium content (A-2, D3), I find that DMT diamond hones work much better than the synthetics like Norton's. I do use a few drops of oil on the Arkansas stone, but otherwise I've gone to honing dry. BreakFree helps clean diamond hones very well.
 
The Razor's Edge's theory of dry sharpening isn't widely accepted it seems. Many people feel without using water you get a lot of dry dust and chips of stone that can scratch and damage the edge. Also when you build up a slurry with water or oil it clogs up the stone and slows down the cutting edge which basically results in the stone becoming a finer grit and allows you to get a finer edge. So you can keep the stone flushed with water or oil to reduce the slurry until you're ready to move onto the next stone and then you let the slurry build up and work the edge with the slurry to help polish the edge before moving to the finer stone. If you have an oil stone you use oil, if you have a water stone you should use water. Most water stones should be stored in a bucket of water so they are ready to be used, or they need to be soaked for awhile before use if you store them dry.
 
I like to do it dry as well. It eliminates the mess and lets you see more accurately what's really happening with your edge. Of course, it's a good way to ruin water and oil stones so I use Diamond and Ceramic stones. They last almost forever and although more expensive in the beginning, end up being a better buy.
 
What it will take to find the answer for this question : "To oil or not to oil?", is for the guys who make and sell the stones we use to do the study on the question that is needed, then come out and tell us what to do...

I dont care what finally is the best answer,,,,if Norton tells me to use oil or not use oil, whatever, will be fine with me.
 
i sharpen dry on cheap $3 hardware-store stones and get perfect results . the dust and grit i use a toothbrush for to brush away after every few strokes. it's not the equipment that counts, it's the one who uses it :o
 
Depends on the stones your using, some stones,(Japanese Water Stones actually make use of the slurry as a cutting/polishing medium, as for the others they use the oil/water as a way to carry the removed material away.

I prefer diamonds dry for touch ups and water stones for polishing.

BTW for you stoners, Towlie says don't forget to change the Bong water frequently. :D
 
Well, this old stoner has never been down with using 'em dry ... though I think a stone that has *never* been oiled is less likely to get clogged with metal and grit than a stone that has been oiled, but that the user doesn't keep oiled before, during, and after use.

Also, there's a wide difference among Norton stones. Crystolon (silicon carbide) stones will remove material more quickly than will India (aluminum oxide) but most agree that the India stone produces a cleaner, crisper edge. Plus an India stone will last virtually forever, while silicon carbide tends to wear and "dish" fairly easily -- especially if you're using it dry or with water, rather than oil.

My recommendation for a good benchstone at a really righteous price (dude :)) is:

http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/...hop&Product_Code=NO-IND-MB8&Category_Code=THO

Norton India stones come pre-oiled, so you want to keep it oiled. I use ordinary, pharmacy-grade mineral oil, which gives a nice cutting action on medium India, with no loading/clogging.

Realize also that "conventional" stones -- silicon carbide, aluminum oxide, as well as Arkansas -- aren't going to work as well on some of the modern stainless alloys with lots of non-ferrous carbides. For these you'll probably want to go with more aggressive media, such as water stones or diamond.
 
It really depends on the stones - I find the cheaper the stone the more you have to use oil - the best stones to buy are those that are pre oil-filled that way you won't use so much oil. But if you want to go dry try the Razor Edge stones they are designed to be used dry. With the coarse stone keep a brush handy to keep it clean with the fine stone you wash.
 
I used a 2000 Shapton Stone for a bit and it's maybe as good as it gets. They've got a video coming out soon just for knives that should be great.
I didn't give it much of a chance, but bench stones aren't "it" for me. It's probably more of a lack of skill thing that anything else. I like the Edge Pro systems a lot myself, but in the end simplicity won out with a few different 1" x 4" Arkansas stones from Dan's Whetstones.
They say to use oil so I've been using oil with great results. It's tough to beat the perfection of the "systems" out there, but I just kinda like oiling my little stones and getting a pretty good edge freehand.
 
Some good comments here. Thanks for the input, guys. I have some things to think about now.
 
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