Sharpening

[Bluhrb]

Hey! I'm going to sharpen my first knife and I have a few questions after watching YouTube tutorials. So, I've been told to do an up and down scrubbing motion from one end of the blade to the other, but I've also been told to do one clean stroke from one end to the other. Which one would be better? Also, should I sharpen starting from the tip and making my way to the heel/choil, or should I go from the heel/choil to the tip? One last question, I'm supposed to envision an invisible line from the tip to the heel and make that parallel to the clamp right? How do I accurately envision the line without physically drawing it? I feel like just playing it by eye would be inaccurate. Thank you!

PS (irrelevant to topic): Would I be better off with a ceramic or steel ball bearing for my Manix 2? I've heard the ceramic may damage the blade because the ceramic is harder then the steel. Thanks!

 

[catspa]

There’s a subforum here called MTE (Maintenance, tinkering and embellishment) that’s kinda focused on sharpening and repair. That’d be a good place to find the info you’re after.

I’ll try to ask a moderator to move this thread there.

Parker

 

[Skar]

I've been drinking but here we go.

I prefer clean controlled swipes starting from the point to the choil or back of the blade.

I don't use a clamp so I'm unsure about that line of sight question.

I haven't replaced any parts, I would think steel would be a better choice.
Seems less brittle.

 

[dogstar]

IMO you are overthinking it. Start with a cheapo knife that is easy to sharpen, like an SAK (or a kitchen knife). Go to town. Check on a piece of paper. Repeat.
Experience is the best teacher.

 

[K.O.D.]

Hey! I'm going to sharpen my first knife and I have a few questions after watching YouTube tutorials. So, I've been told to do an up and down scrubbing motion from one end of the blade to the other, but I've also been told to do one clean stroke from one end to the other. Which one would be better? Also, should I sharpen starting from the tip and making my way to the heel/choil, or should I go from the heel/choil to the tip? One last question, I'm supposed to envision an invisible line from the tip to the heel and make that parallel to the clamp right? How do I accurately envision the line without physically drawing it? I feel like just playing it by eye would be inaccurate. Thank you!

PS (irrelevant to topic): Would I be better off with a ceramic or steel ball bearing for my Manix 2? I've heard the ceramic may damage the blade because the ceramic is harder then the steel. Thanks!

I use a Spyderco sharpmaker, but long strokes starting at the tip.

I've had my Manix 2 for 8 years and it has performed flawlessly with the steel bearing and plastic cage. I had at one time considered upgrading to a titanium cage but decided I didn't want the extra weight.

Many knives use ceramic ball bearings in the pivot, I don't think there would be an issue if you used one in the lock.


Also, I find regularly honing and stopping my knives (aka maintaining the edges) is s lot easier than using them until very dull then trying to bring them back to sharp. However, I rotate about 20 folders so no single one sees excessive use.

 

[Ourorboros]

Okay, well the real important part is to keep the same angle of knife to stone. Any motion will remove metal. Just keep the same angle on each side.
I start with the heel, but it shouldn't really matter, you end up doing the whole blade.

With the clamp comment, I assume you are using some kind of rig and can't help you there.

 

[Spats McGee]

Welcome to BF, B Bluhrb . You came to the right place for info. Lots of very knowledgeable people here. I don’t count myself among the Very Knowledgeable, but I’ll tell you what I can.

1. Go grab some high carbon steel knives from garage sales. There is no substitute for practice & HC sharpens & dulls easily. Sharpen, dull, rinse, repeat. I’m thinking things like those Old Hickory knives everyone’s grandma had.

2. I work from heel to tip, but am not convinced that the steel cares which way I go.

3. I also (typically) use edge leading strokes, but am also unconvinced that the steel cares. It may care in the finishing stages, but I can’t find any difference between edge-leading or “scrubbing” on the stone at the coarse stone phase.

 

[DavidABQ]

For whatever it is worth I go from heel to tip. I use that motion regardless if it is a bench stone or my Sharpmaker. I go from heel to tip and it seems to work well for me. Don’t overthink this. A sharp knife is a sharp knife regardless of what system you used and what motion was used.

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

The risk with clamped & guided rigs, in terms of the back & forth 'scrubbing' method using small & narrow stones, is doing too much scrubbing in a relatively narrow portion of the edge. If you do that, you risk creating flat spots on some portions OR inducing recurve in portions of otherwise straight or outwardly-curved edge profiles. I mention this out of personal experience and in having made some of those mistakes myself, when I used a guided system. It's also possible to gouge the edge of the blade if the narrow stone is tilted off of flat during any of those back & forth scrubbing strokes, leaving only the edge/corner of the stone in contact with the bevel. I've done that too.

The back & forth scrubbing technique carries a different connotation in freehand sharpening on bench stones. In that context, the scrubbing can more easily be done in more widely-sweeping passes along the blade's edge length and over the larger abrasive surface area. There can still be some risk of flat-spotting the edge in doing so, if you concentrate in one narrow portion too long. But the scrubbing technique is, to me, more useful on bench stones for the sake of grinding speed. It can be done with the blade oriented diagonally to the stone's length, which can help in making the bevels flatter overall and more uniform along their length.

For finishing passes on any rig or stone, I ALWAYS prefer light, sweeping passes from heel-to-tip. For me, that helps get the final scratch pattern looking more clean & uniform and minimizes the risk of losing control over the motion in the process.

 

[Bluhrb]

I've been drinking but here we go.

I prefer clean controlled swipes starting from the point to the choil or back of the blade.

I don't use a clamp so I'm unsure about that line of sight question.

I haven't replaced any parts, I would think steel would be a better choice.
Seems less brittle.

would I do strokes pulling the stone downwards or upwards?

 

[Bluhrb]

The risk with clamped & guided rigs, in terms of the back & forth 'scrubbing' method using small & narrow stones, is doing too much scrubbing in a relatively narrow portion of the edge. If you do that, you risk creating flat spots on some portions OR inducing recurve in portions of otherwise straight or outwardly-curved edge profiles. I mention this out of personal experience and in having made some of those mistakes myself, when I used a guided system. It's also possible to gouge the edge of the blade if the narrow stone is tilted off of flat during any of those back & forth scrubbing strokes, leaving only the edge/corner of the stone in contact with the bevel. I've done that too.

The back & forth scrubbing technique carries a different connotation in freehand sharpening on bench stones. In that context, the scrubbing can more easily be done in more widely-sweeping passes along the blade's edge length and over the larger abrasive surface area. There can still be some risk of flat-spotting the edge in doing so, if you concentrate in one narrow portion too long. But the scrubbing technique is, to me, more useful on bench stones for the sake of grinding speed. It can be done with the blade oriented diagonally to the stone's length, which can help in making the bevels flatter overall and more uniform along their length.

For finishing passes on any rig or stone, I ALWAYS prefer light, sweeping passes from heel-to-tip. For me, that helps get the final scratch pattern looking more clean & uniform and minimizes the risk of losing control over the motion in the procalso

The risk with clamped & guided rigs, in terms of the back & forth 'scrubbing' method using small & narrow stones, is doing too much scrubbing in a relatively narrow portion of the edge. If you do that, you risk creating flat spots on some portions OR inducing recurve in portions of otherwise straight or outwardly-curved edge profiles. I mention this out of personal experience and in having made some of those mistakes myself, when I used a guided system. It's also possible to gouge the edge of the blade if the narrow stone is tilted off of flat during any of those back & forth scrubbing strokes, leaving only the edge/corner of the stone in contact with the bevel. I've done that too.

The back & forth scrubbing technique carries a different connotation in freehand sharpening on bench stones. In that context, the scrubbing can more easily be done in more widely-sweeping passes along the blade's edge length and over the larger abrasive surface area. There can still be some risk of flat-spotting the edge in doing so, if you concentrate in one narrow portion too long. But the scrubbing technique is, to me, more useful on bench stones for the sake of grinding speed. It can be done with the blade oriented diagonally to the stone's length, which can help in making the bevels flatter overall and more uniform along their length.

For finishing passes on any rig or stone, I ALWAYS prefer light, sweeping passes from heel-to-tip. For me, that helps get the final scratch pattern looking more clean & uniform and minimizes the risk of losing control over the motion in the process.

would I be pulling the 'tri abrasive rod' downwards or upwards with each stroke? EXE would I start with the top of the stone in contact with the knife and then slowly push upwards until the bottom of the stone was in contact with the edge or the other way around?

 

[Blade Lab]

It would help if you said what sharpening system you're using. You mention a clamp, so is it safe to assume you're using a fixed-angle system like a KME, Lansky, Edge Pro, etc.?

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

would I be pulling the 'tri abrasive rod' downwards or upwards with each stroke? EXE would I start with the top of the stone in contact with the knife and then slowly push upwards until the bottom of the stone was in contact with the edge or the other way around?

If I'm understanding what you're asking, the sharpening stroke preferred by most is an edge-leading motion. In other words, going in a direction from the edge of the blade toward the spine of the blade. So, the blade's edge is effectively 'leading' or moving forward into the stone, as if the edge were slicing into the stone with each pass.

As others have mentioned, it'd be helpful if we knew which specific clamped system you're using, so we know how everything is oriented. The 'tri abrasive rod' description sounds like the 'Tri-Brasive Rod' for the Work Sharp Precision Adjust Sharpener - is that what you're using?

 

[Blade Lab]

Thinking about this some more, I'd say there is no right or wrong way. I've seen highly skilled sharpeners do it every sort of way. As long as you raise a burr on both sides, while maintaining a consistent angle and same-sized bevels on both sides, the way you get there is *mostly* immaterial. The main difference would be the scratch pattern you create.

The one thing I would say is that, whichever method you choose, check for a burr frequently. When you start to develop a burr on some parts of the blade, begin to focus on the parts of the blade that haven't developed a burr yet, and keep going until there's a burr all along the edge. When starting out, don't be afraid to create a big burr -- by which I mean, a burr that's significant enough as to leave no doubt that you've apexed the blade. With experience you'll develop a feel for it and you'll be able to get away with smaller burrs.

 

[Guy McVer]

Hey! I'm going to sharpen my first knife

Repeat:

Consistency is king.
Consistency is king.
Consistency is king.

...etc.

Make it your mantra. Sharpening is about doing the same thing in the same way over and over and over until you get to a workable edge. If you falter, change things up too much, get bored or frustrated, then you fail. Trust the process, and keep going.

Consistency is king.

Also, should I sharpen starting from the tip and making my way to the heel/choil, or should I go from the heel/choil to the tip?

Yes... do both. Mostly I will go heel to tip. Alternating every once in a while is not a bad idea, and I find that if the tip needs a lot of wok then it's useful to start each pass at the tip first more often than not.

I've been told to do an up and down scrubbing motion from one end of the blade to the other, but I've also been told to do one clean stroke from one end to the other. Which one would be better?

Both are useful. It depends on how much work you need to do and where you are in the process. The closer you are to a good workable edge, the more deliberate, delicate, and slow your strokes should become. If you have a long way to go, then you can start off by going buck wild, "scrubbing" the edge.

IMO you are overthinking it. Start with a cheapo knife that is easy to sharpen, like an SAK (or a kitchen knife). Go to town. Check on a piece of paper. Repeat.
Experience is the best teacher.

Go on ebay. Grab a cheap lot of used swiss army knives. Dump them in a bowl of dish soap and clean them up. Start sharpening them one by one.

As you learn how to sharpen, you will ruin a few knives. Better to ruin a few cheapies.

One last question, I'm supposed to envision an invisible line from the tip to the heel and make that parallel to the clamp right? How do I accurately envision the line without physically drawing it? I feel like just playing it by eye would be inaccurate. Thank you!

I think you should learn how to sharpen on a normal stone so that you aren't cheating yourself by relying on equipment that you may not always have access to.

 

[dogstar]

I would say that I have yet to ruin a knife by sharpening it. I might have gotten to a point where I was stuck, but it just meant I had to take a break and get back to it. I always ended up with a good edge. It's usually something I am doing (or not doing) that becomes clear over time. That is why I say experience is the best teacher. Just do it.

 

[Guy McVer]

I would say that I have yet to ruin a knife by sharpening it. I might have gotten to a point where I was stuck, but it just meant I had to take a break and get back to it. I always ended up with a good edge. It's usually something I am doing (or not doing) that becomes clear over time. That is why I say experience is the best teacher. Just do it.

Well I definitely have. I ruined a few knives by oversharpening them, and I ruined the finish on several of them by scratching their sides up pretty badly. Thankfully they were all cheap knives that I was using to teach myself sharpening. I did manage to mostly fix one of the scratched up ones by sanding it and then polishing it with some Flitz.

You could argue that all of the knives that I ruined can still technically be used, and so they're not really ruined, but that's not the way that I look at it. I just straight up ruined those knives and I'm not going to try to avoid owning up to it.

Being able to make use of a damaged or poorly sharpened knife by reprofiling it, making a new tip out of a broken or badly chipped one, etc... these are of course good things to learn.

 

[Bluhrb]

It would help if you said what sharpening system you're using. You mention a clamp, so is it safe to assume you're using a fixed-angle system like a KME, Lansky, Edge Pro, etc.?

WSPA