sharpening

[Stabilo]

Hi,
I did a quick look and didn't find a topic to answer my questions, so....

I've noticed that a LOT of knife owners don't know how to sharpen their own blades, and even those who own expensive knives often sharpen them incorrectly. But then I started thinking, What exactly is incorrect?

I was taught to always use a stone without water. I know there are methods that do use water. Then there's the direction of stroke - starting with the edge or drawing the edge away (I was told this was ridiculous, but the fact of the matter is my dad learned it that way and it works for him). There's the size, shape and coarseness of stones, and there's steels. I also found it strange that the big companies often only sell self-guided sharpeners. Surely a skilled person doing it manually would be better?

So what I'm asking is, what works for you (or what have you heard that works best?)

 

[ninjajoe]

I insist on freehanding, but I'm not in the majority. You can get a more consistent, sharper edge faster and easier with some of the higher end systems (its true that 95% of the "gadgets" out there are total crap); I just don't find it as satisfying. I also like to be able to sharpen effectively anywhere I go, without having to rely on a system. I’ve been very impressed with some of the edges produced by people on this forum using the Edge Pro and other systems, many of them are much sharper and more consistent than I can hope to produce with my current skill level.

As far as using the stones dry, it depends on what you’re sharpening on. If you spend any time looking around this section, you'll find there are about 8 or so categories of sharpening stones / substrates, and hundreds of choices within these categories. If you’re using silicone carbide or aluminum oxide (Crystolon and India) stones, some use them dry (like me) others use them with oil as this is what most of them were designed to be used with.

As far as edge leading? That’s the way I do it but it’s been pretty well established that it doesn’t affect the outcome significantly, its just personal preference. There are some substrates that you must use edge trailing to avoid cutting into the material.

Above technique, stone / material choices, system or freehand, the only thing that really matters in the end is results.

 

[Tanguay Custom Knives]

My advice to anyone: Learn how to use a stone correctly. You may be somewhere and find that's all you have available.

That being said, I highly recommend the Spyderco Sharpmaker. Buy one, watch the DVD, and do what Sal says. Mine has sharpened over 500 knives on the same stones. That's no BS. They still work as good as they did the first day. If you own one of my knives, or sent one in for an upgrade or refurb, it was sharpened on my old Sharpmaker. There simply is no easier way.

I just wish Spyderco would make a smaller, more compact Sharpmaker for camping, hunting trips, backpacking, etc. I could sell fifteen of them right at my job where nearly everyone hunts and fishes.

Spyderco Sharpmaker tip of the day: Use Hoppes #9 Gun Solvent to clean your stones. Every Wal Mart sells it. I wipe mine with a Hoppes soaked rag after every ten strokes. It makes a difference you can really feel.

Scott

 

[Tballetta]

I admire those who can sharpen by hand and if you receive a certain self satifaction from that method then by all means do it that way.

That said, IMO sharp is a precision excercise. If you want really sharp you can not beat the better machine systems like Sharpmaker or Edge Pro.

 

[Jmurman]

I sharpen by hand. I use the DMK diamond 'stones' and water, first the coarse if I need to reprofile and then the fine, followed by stropping on leather with compound.

I get my knives pretty sharp, although not hair popping sharp, they will all cut hair off your arm or leg. My 710 right now will push cut from the top of a newspaper to the bottom...that's the sharpest I've ever gotten it.

 

[Danno4017]

My advice is to use a Lansky or Spyderco sharpening system first.
Down the track you may feel you have the knowledge to freehand sharpen.

 

[Broos]

I do not understand why hand sharpening is thought of as a mystery. It shouldn't be. With very little practice it is not hard to hold the knife at an consistent angle and run it across the stone. Read up here, practice on some cheapies you got lying around, finish on a strop and with practice you will get a knife as sharp (or sharper) than any gadget *(no offense intended, edgepro & EZsharp guys).

phone book paper tube

 

[HoB]

I think freehand you have simply the largest variety of abrasive media at your disposal: Resin-, ceramic-, clay- waterstones each with Aluminum oxide, and silicon carbide and diamond abrasives available; Diamond stones; Ceramic stones; Arkansas stones; more lapping compounds "than you can shake a wooden spoon at"; paper and PSA backed abrasives....the list goes on and on. You can pick what you like best.

 

[ninjajoe]

I think freehand you have simply the largest variety of abrasive media at your disposal

That’s what I like too, it’s so fun to experiment with all those different choices vs. such a static setup with a system.

I sharpen by hand. I use the DMK diamond 'stones' and water, first the coarse if I need to reprofile and then the fine, followed by stropping on leather with compound.

That’s a pretty big jump between fine diamond (25 micron, 600 US grit) and leather with compound (.5 micron, 60,000 US grit?), you'd probably get sharper edges if you had a few grits in between.

Having gotten a hand loupe recently, I am now able to see the scratches from these finer grits. It’s shown me I wasn’t getting all the scratches out form the previous grit. Getting this feedback and adjusting accordingly has really improved my edges.

 

[Jmurman]

That’s what I like too, it’s so fun to experiment with all those different choices vs. such a static setup with a system.



That’s a pretty big jump between fine diamond (25 micron, 600 US grit) and leather with compound (.5 micron, 60,000 US grit?), you'd probably get sharper edges if you had a few grits in between.

Having gotten a hand loupe recently, I am now able to see the scratches from these finer grits. It’s shown me I wasn’t getting all the scratches out form the previous grit. Getting this feedback and adjusting accordingly has really improved my edges.

Wow...I didn't think of that. What would you recommend to be an inbetween step?

 

[Buck268]

That’s what I like too, it’s so fun to experiment with all those different choices vs. such a static setup with a system.



That’s a pretty big jump between fine diamond (25 micron, 600 US grit) and leather with compound (.5 micron, 60,000 US grit?), you'd probably get sharper edges if you had a few grits in between.

Having gotten a hand loupe recently, I am now able to see the scratches from these finer grits. It’s shown me I wasn’t getting all the scratches out form the previous grit. Getting this feedback and adjusting accordingly has really improved my edges.

I kind of like hte results I get with that fine DMT going straight to the strop if I want a toothier edge. You'll have the micro-serrations and then the strop will polish them up some; but you have to use very light pressure or the edge will round fairly easy. Sometimes I'll just finish up on the XF instead...

 

[M Wadel]

this might be OT but i kinda like the sharpmaker, ok stones are good but you need practice, i like the versatility of different grits etc with stones but i like the angled method of the SM. i´m going to build a variable stand for stones so i can tilt the stones and go at it like the SM, this will definitely be the best option for me.

 

[gunmike1]

this might be OT but i kinda like the sharpmaker, ok stones are good but you need practice, i like the versatility of different grits etc with stones but i like the angled method of the SM. i´m going to build a variable stand for stones so i can tilt the stones and go at it like the SM, this will definitely be the best option for me.

I first started getting really sharp edges on the Sharpmaker, and I love Spyderco's ceramics for putting on really nice edges. Not to mention the sharpmaker is great for SE knives or any other thing you can think of. I learned a lot of the basics and concepts of sharpening on it, but started running into limitations as far as reprofiling and thin angles that have led me toward benchstones. Since I started getting in to much thinner angles than the standard sharpmaker angles, I bought all of the Spyderco Benchstones and some DMT benchstones for reprofiling and rougher edges. I now use stuff to prop the stones on to maintain my angles (verified by an angle reader I got from Home Depot, which is much better than the angle reader I bought from Harbor Freight), and I have started getting better results with the benchstones than with the same grits on the sharpmaker. I think it is because I have more surface area on the benchstones to help minimize burring, and it is nice to be able to get any angle you want quickly. I plan trying out finer grit papers and 3M tapes on a glass backing (probably from Hand American, as I have their Corian strop base) eventually, but have been very happy with the Spyderco UF grit lately, as I have been getting consistent tree topping edges with it on my Manix and other knives, with minimal burring. The AG Russell rust eraser is also a great help at keeping the ceramics unloaded, not to mention it is quick, easier, and cleaner than using Comet and a scouring pad.

Mike

 

[Broos]

I've heard about the tilted stone method to mimic a sharpmaker using stones. I can see where it has some advantages to maintain a steady angle if it is configured to hold the knife vertically, giving you a visual check.

However, I think I would lose some control over the strokes doing this, because I would now be using one hand, and could not hold the knife in as secure a hold as the 2-handed conventional manner of using bench stones (I would lose the control of having the fingers of my left hand on the blade, a topic discussed here recently). It would also be more difficult to adjust the angle during the stroke to give a more obtuse angle around the tip of the knife vs. the rest of the edge.

You also lose the ability to exert a lot of pressure on the blade, which is a big disadvantage for a rough edge that needs coarse work.

Maybe do the coarse work with the stone conventionally, and finish and maintain using the stand.

 

[M Wadel]

i´m also working on this idea in my head: you know these round al-ox "stones" used for sharpening hss lathe tools and similar in machine shops, the ones that spin 3600rpm or so. i was thinking why not use one of these stones coupled to a slow spinning inexpensive motor (i have a 25watt motor from a bmw, dont know what its for) in a watercontainer, i have a a very fine pink stone that i might try this out on.

this would be for home use, spinning maybe 100-200rpm or so. i bet this would really speed up the sharpening process compared to regular stones. what you guys think of this? i have seen similar machines being sold (tormek grinders i think theyre called) for several hunderd bucks.

 

[Buck268]

I use grinding wheels on my die grinder to sharpen axe heads and machetes all the time. Not because it works good but because its fast. Its very hard to get an uniform grind with a handheld grinding wheel, in my experience. One day I'll drop dime on a bench grinder....maybe...

 

[gunmike1]

I've heard about the tilted stone method to mimic a sharpmaker using stones. I can see where it has some advantages to maintain a steady angle if it is configured to hold the knife vertically, giving you a visual check.

However, I think I would lose some control over the strokes doing this, because I would now be using one hand, and could not hold the knife in as secure a hold as the 2-handed conventional manner of using bench stones (I would lose the control of having the fingers of my left hand on the blade, a topic discussed here recently). It would also be more difficult to adjust the angle during the stroke to give a more obtuse angle around the tip of the knife vs. the rest of the edge.

You also lose the ability to exert a lot of pressure on the blade, which is a big disadvantage for a rough edge that needs coarse work.

Maybe do the coarse work with the stone conventionally, and finish and maintain using the stand.

I prop mine in the horizontal plane, so I maintain the knife flat to the table and have the stone propped up to the desired angle from horizontal. For instance, on my 8" stones, if you put the end of the stone on two Spyderco bechstone holders stacked on each other (the packages with rubber feet they come in) you get an angle around 15 per side. I use the angle reader to verify, and it is easy to add or subtract a couple degrees by slightly moving the stone. For instance, on my last couple strokes I usually add a couple degrees and go extremly light to make sure I eliminate any burring. It works pretty good for me, and I can still use both hands to control the blade (unlike when you use the stones in the vertical plane). Of course, until I watched Murray Carter's video, dumb old me only used on hand on bechstones, as I was so accustomed to the one handed sharpmaker stroke.

Mike

 

[Jared Stenoien]

how about just using a horizontal variable speed disc sander? get a 9 inch and you can trim any piece of sandpaper to fit it.

 

[jlfletcher83]

I have used my sharpmaker to sharpen everything from my dodo to my bk-7 and its has done excellent. I did learn to use a diamond rod in the field

 

[M Wadel]

how about just using a horizontal variable speed disc sander? get a 9 inch and you can trim any piece of sandpaper to fit it.

i think discsanders are too high rpm, i use eccentric hand held disc sanders (Festool) all day long and i wouldnt want to sharpen any knives on them, ive tried, they dont work any good. theyre too "crude"