sharpening

Joined
Mar 5, 2007
Messages
516
ok guys. i've got a problem. between me, my brother, my aunt, and my mother, we have a lot of knives that need sharpening, mostly kitchen knives. i've got a couple whetstones, and one of those '10 second sharpener' things, but nothing seems to be working. maybe i'm doing it wrong, maybe not. what do you guys use, like wheels or stones or whatnot? we can't afford to seek out a professional.

moved here from gadgets. sorry.
 
Soon to follow my post, inevitably, will be tons of “get a sharpmaker or an edge-pro” suggestions. This is defiantly a valid option, as both devices I’ve heard work well. However, because you already have bench stones, let me suggest you learn how to use them properly before investing more money in a gadget.

Freehand sharpening can be rewarding. It allows you to choose from a wonderful variety of stones and substrates vs. the fairly limited selection that is available with systems. Don’t be intimidated, freehand sharpening is not that difficult to learn, here are some good tutorials:

http://forums.egullet.org/index.php?showtopic=26036

http://www.japanesechefsknife.com/HowToSharpen.html

There are many different techniques, ways to hold an angle, abrasive choices, etc. And also a lot of information out there on this forum and others. The best advice I can give you is use the technique that works and is comfortable for you. Don’t let anyone tell you that there way is the only way; people get good edges using a huge variety of techniques. As long as you adhere to the general guidelines as outlined in the first tutorial, with practice you should be able to produce good edges.

If you would like more specific advice, I would be more than happy to help you. If so, a little info from you would be helpful in determining a good solution; what stones do you have? What sharpening technique have you been using? What knives are you sharpening (mostly kitchen? If so what brands?).
 
TemplarKnight21c,

What sort of whetstones do you have? If they're the type that have oil on/in them, do you have access to kerosene and a well ventilated space? If you do, click on ninjajoe's Japanese Chefs Knife link, skip the soaking-in-water advice, and follow everything else. When you're done, carefully clean off the blades with Windex (or affordable alternative - store brand cleans the same), and store properly.

The first time I tried the advice in that link, I used oilstones and mineral oil (kerosene will work better, but I had what I had). The knife looked gross, but it was sharp. I've since been able to make my knives prettier and sharper, but that just requires more time (and switching to waterstones didn't hurt, either).

Just as ninjajoe predicted, there will be calls to buy various sharpening systems. I have some and like them, but none of them do anything you can't do with your own two hands. Well, maybe the leather buffing belts and felt buffing wheels do things your hands would take hours to match, but there are sandpapers and waterstones that speed up those processes.

Good luck in your new journey/addiction.
 
I have always used whetstones. The key is taking your time and learning to use them. Make sure if the knife is very dull that your starting out with a soft or washita stone and then move on to a harder stone.
 
i have three whetstones; one came with a survival knife that cost about $5 in a set, probly less. one i got at wal-mart, don't remember the brand, but it's stained on one side from my previous attempts at using honing oil. and my favorite is the smith's one. i've had the most success with that. the knives being sharpened will be mostly chef's knives, boning knives, carvers, etc, and a few pocket knives. the one i carry now is super cheap (cost less than a dollar), and i don't much care if i ruin it practicing. the others are a bit more pricey.

all of my stones are dry stones. around here, that's all i can get, unless i want to spend upwards of $50 (and i'd like to avoid that). i think my biggest problem is in getting the angle right. the first couple times i did the cheapo, i was able to cut comics out of the newspaper, leaving clean edges. as far as my pocket knives go, they're made to work. they'll get dirty; not a big deal.

i'll check out the links. thanks folks, really appreciate it.
 
You can use any El Cheapo sharpening stone. Even a simple file will do. The trick is to make sure you move the blade across the sharpening tool at the same angle and avoid the short cut of rounding. Keep it straight and after a few strokes, check the opposite side of the blade for a distinct burr all along the edge. When you feel that burr, flip the blade over and stroke the burred side the same way until the opposit edge, the one you started on first, acquires the same burr all along its edge. After that, get any stone or diamond stick or steel and strop the edges one after another, and gradually ease up on the strokes. After a few strokes, you should be able to cut through a ripe tomato very easily, and if the angle is about 17 degrees, you should be able to shave with the blade. Good luck.
 
Hi,

I used to have a hard black Arkansas but gave it away for a Sypderco utra fine which gives a beter finish. The spyderco used to gall but someone in another foum told me to dress it with a diamond stone and now it works very well. Dressing it wore outa DMT diamond stone but was worth it. I have not tried japanese water stones as I cannot wait half an hour of soaking in water before using it. I think that the ultra fine polishing papers are just as good and less trouble. I did my shaving razor on the spyderco and went onto the strop and it turned out perfect.

Regards
Frank
 
Belt Sander--$100 gets you the sander and all the belts, compound you'll need to do many, many, many knives. Takes a couple minutes, max, to sharpen a knife to more than razor sharpness. Very much worth it in the long run, especially with that many knives. Good luck!
 
Here is the one that is frequently suggested on this forum:
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=2485
Then go to this site:
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=48040&cat=1,43072
and pick up some belts. Get a good selection of grits, taking care to buy the ones for grinding, not wood sanding, and also get a leather belt. You can also pick up this honing compound (for the leather belt) there:
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=32984&cat=1,43072
In fact, here is the link to their general sharpening supplies page:
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&cat=1&p=43072
Read up on angles and sharpening technique (if you care to, that is :) ) and you are set. There is a great link to a summary of buying this stuff and how to use it that Jerry Hossum wrote. I can't find it now, but maybe someone else can steer you there. I sort of summarized it, but he says it better. Glad to help--let me know if there are any more questions I can answer. If someone had turned me on to this stuff in the beginning, I would have saved a ton of money and time. My stuff just arrived today, actually, and I just walked in from the garage; I've been playing with my new toys like a kid on Christmas!
 
Harbor freight sells 'em. Be careful not to let the blade get too hot or you'll ruin the temper of your blade. Dip in water frequently.

Personally, I prefer freehand sharpening on benchstones. To each their own. Just keep 'em sharp.

NJ
 
I think knowing the theory and technique of knife sharpening is really vital, and there's no more masterful way to do it than freehand on benchstones. I've done it as well. Personally, though, I love the time and effort saved by going power. Cue Tim Allen...:eek:
 
I have no real authority, as I'm just starting out on the learning to sharpen process.

I'd like to suggest another website, which I find find a good description of the science behind sharpening- Steve Bottorff's Sharpening Made Easy. It's here: http://users.ameritech.net/knives/index.htm

I hope you don't find this suggestion patronising.

Right now I'm trying to teach myself the mouse mat technique, which I'd think would have to be the cheapest way to do it. Having said that, I'd say a belt sander would probably be the best advice for someone with a lot of sharpening to do.
 
my $.02. get the 'V' sharpener, with coarse (for really dull) and fine sticks
from idahone inc. the coarse sticks allow you to remove metal relatively quickly. you can have a sharp edge in 10 min. from when you recieve it. an easy learning curve.
i have had a 'v' sharpener for 25 yrs... if you do just your family sharpening
it's all you'll ever need. idahone # (303) 838-4635
ulua
 
Looks like you’re on the right track, lots of good suggestions here. As far as holding a consistent angle, I think that’s the #1 problem for the beginning sharpener, with practice you’ll be able to hold it more consistently. Also pay close attention to the sound and feeling when sharpening, when you are working on a flat bevel, the sound and feeling changes quite a bit from when your hitting the angle and when your not. Being able to cut newspaper cleanly means you’re defiantly on the right track. If your still having trouble holding the angle after practice, or just want to try a new technique, try propping the stone up on something at whatever angle you want to sharpen the knife to, then just keep the knife level when sharpening and you’ll come out with the right angle.

As far as your stones, most stones will work, but when you want a fine finish / sharper edge, you’ll have to get some finer stones. Also its important to consider progression of grits, having coarse, med, and fine stones will produce better edges. However you can get decent, usable edges on just about anything, and sharpening cheep knives on cheep stones is great practice, when you switch to higher quality you’ll be that much better. If your interested in experimenting with some really high grade abrasives, and don’t want to spend a lot of money, the scary sharp method is hard to beat. There is lots of info online about it, but basically its using sandpaper attached to glass or another flat surface to sharpen with. You can buy some expensive (and really nice) paper like this: http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/...en=CTGY&Store_Code=toolshop&Category_Code=THS But just about any wet / dry sandpaper available anywhere will work, try to get up to 1200 grit. Cheep hardware store stones (like Norton) work great for setting up the bevel when using this method (because coarser sandpaper tends to wear out quickly) then finish with maybe a 320, 600, 1200 grit progression on the sandpaper.

As far as the setup, most people suggest getting a piece of 3” X 11” X ¼” or thicker glass (3 X 11 is 1/3 sheet of standard sandpaper) but if you are really looking to be frugal, here’s what to do. Go to the local hardware store and have them cut you some window glass into 3” X 11” pieces, my local hardware store did this for free out of there scraps. Then go to home depot / etc. and get a piece of ¾” MDF (Medium Density Fiberboard, the brown stuff that clip boards and peg boards are made out of, I think its like $6 for a 4X4’ sheet) and have them rip a couple of 3 ¼” strips out of it for you. Also get some clear silicone bathtub caulk. Go home and cut the MDF strips up into 11 ¼” pieces. Then rub the edges of the glass on your cheep hardware stone to knock off the sharp corners. You can then glue the glass to the MDF using the caulk, squirt out a liberal amount onto the MDF and then press the glass on hard (you can see when its spreading evenly), and your ready to slap some paper on and start sharpening (a glue stick works good for attaching the paper to glass). These are so cheep that you can have one for every grit witch is convenient, you can add rubber feet (the kind used on chair legs) to them to keep them from sliding around, or put them on a rubber drawr liner (the waffle kind) or similar. Keep some of the MDF pieces plain because they work great to rub stropping compound in and use as a super cheep strop.

Some other stones that produce satisfactory results and aren’t that expensive are Norton India stones http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/...&Product_Code=NO-WIDEOIL.XX&Category_Code=THO Also for cheep kitchen knives that can take a really good edge, go for Old Hickory by Ontario Knife Co. I’ve been using these all my life and you can really get them sharp vs the often more expensive stainless knives, and they are like $6 for a 8” chefs! That’s less than a buck an inch!
 
I just visited the egullet.org site. I thought I knew how to sharpen a knife until now. I always thought that if I had a burr I was doing something wrong, I would reclamp the blade in my Elcheapo Smith system and keep trying until I had no burr. After reading the tutorial I just sharpend my wifes Wusthof Santoka as sharp if not sharper than it came out of the box.

Thanx Ninjajoe for the info
 
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