Sharpening ?

[John E Woven]

Hey, I've got a spyderco sharpmaker, which keeps my knive ssharp, but not sharp enough for my liking. it creates sharp edges, but not ones that seem to last, or edges that actually cut things. I'm looking for something new that will create better edges, more consistant edges, and allow for reprofiling.

I've been looking at the DMT stuff, and I was wondering:
- What's the difference between the aligner and the dmg, aside from that the dmg uses the diafold vs just the stones ?
- How fine is the sharpmaker fine (white) stones ?
- recurves: are they any different with a dmg / aligner ?
- serrations: Any hope with these ?
- what kind of angles do these provide ?

Also, other systems recommended ? I don't have the space for a paper wheel setup, and it seems like the edgepro is great but I really don't want to spend that much if I don't have to.

 

[singularity35]

I believe that the Edge Pro and the Sharpmaker complement each other. As has been mentioned already the EP really shines in reprofiling bevel angles. Once the bevel has been set that matches any of the pre set angles of the SM, you can touch up your knives back to hair whittling and even TP cutting sharp in a few minutes. If you really use your knives a lot and therefore sharpen a lot, then you would need to reset the bevle more often.

I usually set my bevels at 40 or 30 near about so that I can microbevel with the sharpmaker. Once the microbevel starts getting wide(very visible), I will reset the bevel.

 

[BladeChemist]

Hey, I've got a spyderco sharpmaker, which keeps my knive ssharp, but not sharp enough for my liking. it creates sharp edges, but not ones that seem to last, or edges that actually cut things. I'm looking for something new that will create better edges, more consistant edges, and allow for reprofiling.

I've been looking at the DMT stuff, and I was wondering:
- What's the difference between the aligner and the dmg, aside from that the dmg uses the diafold vs just the stones ?
- How fine is the sharpmaker fine (white) stones ?
- recurves: are they any different with a dmg / aligner ?
- serrations: Any hope with these ?
- what kind of angles do these provide ?

Also, other systems recommended ? I don't have the space for a paper wheel setup, and it seems like the edgepro is great but I really don't want to spend that much if I don't have to.

Do you have the extra-fine rods for the Sharpmaker?

 

[chogue1980]

The extra fine rods take the sharpmaker to a whole new level

 

[me2]

If you have you're heart set on something new, then the DMT stuff is pretty nice. The white standard rods are about 2000 to 2500 grit. The sharpmaker is capable of producing excellent edges, but as with all equipment, it takes practice. Unless you are changing the outline of the knife, you're rebeveling, not reprofiling. You can get edges off the white stones that will whittle hair, treetop arm hair, etc. Just keep at it.

 

[Any Cal.]

You could also be working up a burr on the sharpmaker that dulls almost instantly. I used to do the same thing with crock sticks. See if the knife grabs at one arm but not the other, if it does, you have a burr on that side.

I like the DMT stones for keeping a burr to a minimum. I still get them, but just work them on the same stone until they are pretty much gone, using very light pressure. The only reason I mention this is because I used to sharpen, and then touch up with the crock sticks. After the first touch up, it seemed like my edge just wouldn't last very long, and I think it was because I was just forming a big burr that cut well until I cut into anything hard.

 

[Heiheit]

1. I'm pretty sure that is the only difference
2. I've heard they're 1200 grit
3. No, both systems handle recurves the same way.
4. You have to sharpen the reverse side of where the serrations are ground with a fine stone.
5. I know the aligner has a fair amount of angles and if your bevel doesn't match an angle provided, it's pretty close so you can grind a new one easily.

The aligner was a great kit when I owned it (I owned it for about a week before I got an edge pro so didn't use it much.)

It's fantastic for the price.

 

[trugracie]

Harbor Freight belt sander $30
Pop's knife supply belts 200, 400, 600 $1.50 each
Leather 1x30 belt $12
Polishing compound $5
Mirror convex edge on every knife I own, PRICELESS!

 

[John E Woven]

Do you have the extra-fine rods for the Sharpmaker?

I don't. For the cost ($40), I'm already most of the way to one of those DMT sets. That, and the added number of angles I can use with the DMT vs the 2 of the sharpmaker (well, 3), it doesn't make much financial sense.

If you have you're heart set on something new, then the DMT stuff is pretty nice. The white standard rods are about 2000 to 2500 grit. The sharpmaker is capable of producing excellent edges, but as with all equipment, it takes practice. Unless you are changing the outline of the knife, you're rebeveling, not reprofiling. You can get edges off the white stones that will whittle hair, treetop arm hair, etc. Just keep at it.

The sharpmaker seems to work great for maintaining an edge for me, not so much getting one. I just touched up the edge on a benchmade 790s (s30v), and it's ridiculous. However, re-beveling the edge to a finer angle would really help with some of my other knives, and the sharpmaker doesn't really do that particularly well, in addition to actually sharpening, for knives like my mini-grip, which came from the factory like a butterknife.

You could also be working up a burr on the sharpmaker that dulls almost instantly. I used to do the same thing with crock sticks. See if the knife grabs at one arm but not the other, if it does, you have a burr on that side.

I check out the edges I do with the sharpmaker afterwards; the edges don't really look like they have a burr, the sharpmaker just doesn't seem to get fine enough.

 

[me2]

No, the 204 (Sharpmaker) isn't really the tool you want for rebeveling. It can be done, but it takes a long time. Same goes for a knife that is really dull. Even the brown rod corners are not coarse enough for rapid metal removal. The 204 should practically come with a line in the manual that says you will need a coarse stone to go with it. The diamond triangles for the 204 seem a little too fine for rapid removal. 120 to 220 grit seems best for really dull blades or rebeveling. I also use a belt sander and leather. For large blades and machetes, it's almost a necessity. I really want to try Lee Valley's new 1x30 Trizact belts all the way up to 2000 grit, followed by CrO loaded leather. As another option, you could just use a 1x30 sander to rebevel, then use the 204 to sharpen. I had my sander for a while before I discovered the leather belts. Rebeveling is a breeze with a 120 grit belt and a Sharpmaker.

You can pick up a coarse Norton for about $15, then thin the bevels so they are a few degrees lower than the 204 settings. Then you can be sure the 204 is only doing minimal metal removal at just the edge. You could resharpen on the 204 maybe a dozen times before having to go back to the coarse stone. Just don't let the edge get too far gone before going back and working on the 204. I generally view the 204 as a tool for applying the final edge via microbevels, and for maintaining an edge. I use a 220/1000 grit waterstone for rebeveling and resetting a dull edge, the apply and maintain the edge with the 204. The 220/1000 stone applies an angle 3 to 5 degrees lower than the 204.

The burr produced on the 204 is not visible without some practice and pretty high magnification. The easiest way to tell if your 204 is giving you a burr is to strop the bevel opposite the one that just touched the stone on a towel or felt or other fuzzy cloth. If there is a burr, it will be covered with fuzz. You can also use the hair on your arm or head. CAREFULLY strop the opposite bevel on your arm or back of your head. If there is a burr there, you will feel the drag on the hair. Also do the last bevel that touched the stone, and you can feel how smooth it's supposed to be. Sharpening a soft stainless blade on the corners of the 204 defines a stubborn, hard to remove, floppy burr.

Based on the scratches, my 204 brown rods are about 1000 grit, very close to my 1000 grit water stone. The stock white rods will give a nearly mirror finish, and I'm estimating the 2000-2500 grit. The UF white rods I have not tried. With some practice you can tree top and whittle hair off the brown rod flats on the 204. The fineness of grit in the standard kit is adequate for arm shaving, paper filleting, hair carving edges.

 

[grizzled gizzard]

Harbor Freight belt sander $30
Pop's knife supply belts 200, 400, 600 $1.50 each
Leather 1x30 belt $12
Polishing compound $5
Mirror convex edge on every knife I own, PRICELESS!

++++++++++111111111111

You can quit fooling around with everything else (besides the Edge Pro, which does things nothing else will do), and get a $30 machine that will make wheels look like a novelty. Not only that, but you SAVE money too.

 

[Jason B.]

First and very important, the aligner will not work with recurve blades.

Second, C-F-EF diasharps and a aligner clamp would be a better choice. Becaue the device and stone are free from each other bevel angles are more natural. You also get a nicer finish and a great teaching tool for freehand sharpening. If you would like to see the results yourself send me a email.

Serrations are simply a pain and usually best done by hand. DMT makes some diafolds for serrations that work great as do spyderco pro files, crkt has the new Veff sharp that looks to be good too.

 

[stitchawl]

First and very important, the aligner will not work with recurve blades.

I sure wish you'd posted this 10 years ago. I've been sharpening my recurved Benchmade with both EdgePro and the Aligner all these years. Had I known it wouldn't work I probably couldn't have gotten such nice edges!

I guess I'll have to stop now and find some other method.


Stitchawl

 

[Jason B.]

The EP is a different story but with the aligner that clamps onto the blade there is no way to prevent angle change while sharpening. The inner curve will be a more obtuse angle while the outer curve will be more acute. Angle is judged by blade height and with a recurve you have change in height in all through the length of the blade.

You've never noticed how the belly of the blade ends up with a larger bevel height?

 

[stitchawl]

The EP is a different story but with the aligner that clamps onto the blade there is no way to prevent angle change while sharpening. The inner curve will be a more obtuse angle while the outer curve will be more acute. Angle is judged by blade height and with a recurve you have change in height in all through the length of the blade.

You've never noticed how the belly of the blade ends up with a larger bevel height?

Yep. But it's so minute, (less than 1mm difference, 3/100's of an inch) as to not cause me any dismay. The effect is purely visual (and you have to look pretty hard to see it,) and does not effect the cutting ability of the edge. It still whittles hair all along the blade. Yes, there is a difference. No, it doesn't matter.

The net result is that it's easy and effective to sharpen a recurve with an Aligner or an EdgePro, unless you are sharpening for strictly for cosmetics. The results would be significant if we were talking about a hookbill, as in a karambit, but for the average recurve... no problem.

Stitchawl

 

[Jason B.]

The effect was large enough on a spec bump and 0300 where it looked really off. I like even bevels with even angles so for me this is a incorrect way of sharpening that style of edge.

1-2mm of bevel height change might not be a big deal for you but to me that is sloppy, let alone being many different angles.

 

[wongKI]

Most BM recurves are very gentle (I'm thinking 710, correct me if I'm wrong) so the difference will be much less than that sick S-shape of a Spec Bump.

 

[Jason B.]

Most BM recurves are very gentle (I'm thinking 710, correct me if I'm wrong) so the difference will be much less than that sick S-shape of a Spec Bump.

This is very true and effects of angle change/bevel height will also depend on the angle you select to sharpen at, lower the angle the more you will notice.

 

[stitchawl]

Most BM recurves are very gentle (I'm thinking 710, correct me if I'm wrong) so the difference will be much less than that sick S-shape of a Spec Bump.

Yep, my EDC is a 710. As I said in my post, if one is sharpening something with a very heavy curve such as a karambit, the difference in bevel width will be quite noticeable. With a 710 recurve, you almost have to measure it to be sure there is any difference.

While I do sharpen it to a mirror finish, and take it all the way up to .01 microns for the finish, I don't mind the tiny difference in bevel width. To me, a knife is a tool. I don't have any Closet Queens. If the tool works the way I need it to, and looks the way I want it to, I'm a happy camper.

Stitchawl